Ouch! How many of us are driving 'clunkers'?

[garrett]

sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/could-your-clunker-bring-you-4500-dollars.aspx?slide-number=21

:shake:

[Cebby]

A '99 4Runner only books at $3000? I need one of those...

[corax]

Hey cool, my wife's 2005 Lex is300 qualifies as a clunker :headscratch:

BTW, for anyone considering this program here's the link that'll tell you what qualifies: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/CarsSearchIntro.shtml

[troyboy162]

this is silly lol. i bet it wont pass. talk about wasteful if the traded in vehicles are destroyed. certainly someone will see that aspect. i didnt read it all but the economy boost will be neutered when people buy imports anyhow and i dont think they could right a bill that says you have to buy ford.

[DHC6twinotter]

Mine didn't qualify, I guess. According to the site, my replacement vehicle needed to get at least 18mpg, which a '09 4Runner V8 did not. They also said the 3vze was 2.9L. :headscratch:

However, if I buy a '09 2WD 4Runner V6, my '90 4Runner could be worth $3,500. I'd be happy with that.

I don't really see this whole thing working. The replacement vehicle has to be new, so if I get more cash for my "clunker", then spend even more for a brand new vehicle instead of slightly used, I wouldn't come out any farther ahead. I'd probably end up spending more money.

[Cebby]

The replacement vehicle has to be new, so if I get more cash for my "clunker", then spend even more for a brand new vehicle instead of slightly used, I wouldn't come out any farther ahead. I'd probably end up spending more money.

They are counting on much of the population not thinking it through like that.

[bamachem]

A '99 4Runner only books at $3000? I need one of those...


Ummmm, yeah. Hopefully the guy that just paid $8700 for my 99 won't see that. :D

[CJM]

I want one of these 99 4Runners worth 3k, cause I sure havent EVER seen one that low.

The whole idea isnt the fuel economy but stimulating the economy of the nation by getting you to make payments on a new car and also giving the factory workers work at the same time,

[paddlenbike]

My 2000 4Runner books $9,105 on the kelley blue book site. I searched craigslist and the average 3rd gen price is around $6.5-7k, with some over $10k and one 2wd model with 214,000 miles for $4300. I assume they picked absolute low blue book and are trying to make the point that a vehicle like this could technically qualify. I am glad you must have owned, insured and registered the car for the past year to qualify. I would feel fleeced if some guy traded in his field of beaters for $4500 each.

[YotaFun]

if that's the case the my 97 is worthless and I should just SAS now lol!

[slosurfer]

Totally depends on what you want to buy, and that is what classifies what you have as a "clunker" or not.

If I didn't already have a truck payment, I would seriously be looking at turning my 89 f250 in for a new tundra. It would easily fetch the $4500 and there is no way I could ever sell it for that much or get anything on the trade in. Funny thing is, to do it they have to destroy the engine and that is the newest thing on the ford. :laugh: If I didn't have the tacoma payment already, I would be looking at jumping on this, but only for the POS Ford, I'm keeping the van and the 4runner. :flipoff: I can see companies definately taking advantage of this to get into newer fleet vehicles.

[slosurfer]

Here's an article that explains it a little better
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/cash-for-clunkers-the-rules.aspx

This quote is from the second page of the article:
"A muffler-dragging 25-year-old Toyota may meet the popular definition of clunker, but if the government's estimates show it got more than 18 mpg combined new, it's not a clunker." :laugh:

[MTL_4runner]

It must be a fun job to smoke engines all day at the scrap yard.....


Though all trades must be in drivable condition, dealers are required to disable the vehicles' engines before scrapping them. Regulators’ accepted procedure: Drain the oil, then run several quarts of sodium silicate through the engine. As engine heat evaporates the solution, deposits of dehydrated sodium silicate line the engine's lubrication system, abrading all the moving parts and causing the engine to seize.

In any case I'm not giving up my truck anytime soon.

[DHC6twinotter]

So, it sounds like a the amount a person would get for their vehicle is either $3500 or $4500:

"What is the amount of the credit?

The amount of the credit is $3,500 or $4,500, and generally depends on the type of vehicle you purchase and the difference in fuel economy between the purchased vehicle and the trade-in vehicle. Different requirements apply for work trucks."

"What is the value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new passenger car?

The value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new passenger car depends upon the difference between the combined fuel economy of the vehicle that is traded in and that of the new vehicle that is purchased or leased. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy that is at least 4, but less than 10, miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If the new vehicle has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 10 miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500"


So, if I buy a really fuel efficient car, they would give me $4,500 for my 4Runner with 214k on it!?

I don't want to buy a new car, but $4,500 for my 4Runner sounds nice. :D

[slosurfer]

So is the gov't reimbursing the dealerships the $4500, and if so, how are they paying for it? This is starting to sound rediculous.

So lets say I want to buy a new dcab tundra:

I take $1500 and buy an 89 F250 with 200,000miles on the odometer that has a combined mpg of 11mpg according to the http://www.fueleconomy.gov and has a trade in value of $325 according to Kelly BB trade in value. Then I take it to the toyota dealership and get myself a tacoma 4wd 4.0L which has a combined mpg of 18mpg which qualifies it for the program and it definately beats the Ford by the needed 5mpg to qualify it for the $4500 credit. Basically I make $3000 off my initial investment of $1500, add that to whatever cash I've saved up for a down payment and then work with the dealership to get a good deal and my monthly payment isn't too bad.

Now for who is paying for this. It says that the dealership receives only what the voucher ends up being. So in this case it's $4500, now is this coming from the government, I'm assuming so? The dealership also gets to keep $50 of whatever the scrap value of the vehicle is and the government gets the rest of whatever the scrapyard pays for the vehicle. Now how much is a scrapyard going to pay for an 89 F250 that has the motor destroyed (which is what the dealership has to do to get their voucher)? I'm guessing not much, I'll just go with what the trade in value was. $325

Now if this is all true.
The gov't. pays the dealership $4500 and in return the gov't gets $275 from the scrapyard that bought the F250 with a destroyed motor. :headscratch: Sounds like the gov't is going to dig itself an even bigger hole real quick. :shake:

On the other hand, I see trucks like my 89F250 (very bad gas mileage) going up in value slightly, since someone who wants a new car can buy it and make some money towards their car down payment. :laugh: Glad I never sold it when gas was $4, I couldn't give it away. Now it's worth something. :laugh:

[DHC6twinotter]

Yep, that's pretty much how I understand it too, Chris. I think you do have to own the car for at least a year before trading it in. So, once you buy your F250, you would have to own it for 1 year before getting the 3500 or 4500 for it. At least that how I understood it. :hillbill:

I guess the government is paying for it too. :confused:

[slosurfer]

Ah, didn't see the owning it for a year part. ;) Good thing I've already got an 89 F250 I've owned for too long. :laugh: Although, before I turned it in, I would swap out the rear axle as it has a LSD Dana 60HD full floater in the rear. :hillbill: Think anyone would notice if I pulled on the lot and it was sportin' a dana 35 in the rear? :laugh:

[corax]

Such a waste of money/resources. This one has me pissed off. A tax subsidized manufacturer rebate with a stipulation to destroy engines that possibly have nothing wrong with them. Granted if an engine comes in smoking and barely running it should be melted down, but many of the "clunkers" are sure to be in good running condition . . .

[CJM]

Such a waste of money/resources. This one has me pissed off. A tax subsidized manufacturer rebate with a stipulation to destroy engines that possibly have nothing wrong with them. Granted if an engine comes in smoking and barely running it should be melted down, but many of the "clunkers" are sure to be in good running condition . . .

/sarcasm..
But its so we wont drive inefficient cars anymore corox. Dont you realize that the govt is doing this so we all drive cars that get 40mpg and dont pollute the environment??

Look if someone can answer me this you will be my god: Explain to me HOW in the world does a 1975 F250, which has 0 or very little emissions devices can get 10mpg and what do you know a brand spanking new 09 F250 gas truck gets the same thing? But CJM you say, shouldnt all the computer controlled junk and emissions devices give you more mpg???

Know what I think the issue is: Way back when the soccer moms drive estate or station wagons, then minivans, then SUVs and then they finally drove trucks. Market is flooded with them, people keep driving those big escalades with only 1 passenger (hey cause they are cool trucks, right?) instead of driving something they actually can see over the wheel in without telephone books.

I miss the days when the only people who drove trucks had a real use for them. Either to haul stuff, tow, use for work, etc. Trust me, if my job could use anything less than a V8 truck we would..but you cant haul 7000lbs of weight with a V6 truck..just wont work to easy..

ETA: You know damn sure those politicians who made this whole thing up are driving WHATEVER they want to.

[slosurfer]

Looks like the program is already out of money and will probably close at midnight tonight. :laugh:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=aGJkxR.j5g.A

[DHC6twinotter]

:laugh: What a waist of money that was. About 5 minutes ago, I just watched a Dodge commercial advertising the "cash for clunkers" program. I wonder how many companies have waisted money on these ads?

[corax]

CARS.gov says there's $779M Estimated funds remaining for all vehicles except for CAT3 Trucks.

Here's the graphic from their main page showing "Fund Balance Remaining for CARS"
http://www.cars.gov/images/gas-gauge-main.jpg

[habanero]

I got 2 clunkers and I'm keepin' 'em!

[YotaFun]

We have two clunkers in the drive way and there not going anywhere!

What really makes me ticked off is that there crushing everything.
So pretty much for those of us that rely on junkyard parts to repair our clunkers, eventually we will have to let them go and get something new...

[corax]

the scrap yards do get to pick whatever they want before the crusher gets them - accessories, sheet metal, everything but the engine - not sure if they can put them in the u-pull-it yards before they get crushed

[CJM]

^ they are doing this so we cannot have them at all-in essence forcing us to drive more efficient cars without us really knowing.

[YotaFun]

I heard rumors (just rumors) that they were seizing then engines before they crushed them too.

[corax]

I was watching a dealer destroy a car they other day and the tech told me about one they had 2 days earlier -> a cadillac, some kind of V8 (4.3/4.6L?) - they drained the oil, put "Engine Bomb" in it, and had it at 1500 rpm for 10 minutes without it dying. They put the lot attendant in it and he held it wide open for another 10 minutes before the cats got so hot that it started on fire, the lot attendant jumped out and before the fire dept got there it torched both cars on either side ( a Jeep Gr Cher + something else I don't remember). . . I didn't ask, but I wonder if they got their money since the engine wasn't seized?

[CJM]

Yep I heard they were doing it too..

So instead of doing it the smart way and selling them off to yards for parts, which would generate more revenue they are crushing them. Now we dunno for sure if the yards are doing it, I bet they wont be but who knows.

[corax]

I heard rumors (just rumors) that they were seizing then engines before they crushed them too.


yeah, all the engines get seized before they get hauled away (that's the rules), but the scrap yards do get to pick them clean of whatever they want - just not the engine. So the only parts that can't be re-used are the blocks - everything else is fair game for reuse/recycling . . . not as bad as I initially thought, and this info is straight from the dealers

[Whitey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj5gzvGnGP4&feature=player_embedded

This will break any toyota enthusiast heart.

[Crinale]

u wanna know whats most sad about that poor cruiser? they probably could have gotten more selling it privately than they were given by cash for clunkers... sad sad day

[YotaFun]

This sucks, this pisses me off.
I guess its time to start looking for a new car soon
There wont be any more 4Runner parts new or old for me to scrounge up.
I Guess I should go find someone that wants to trade in there 3rd gens so I have a parts vehicle.

And if I ever Get a 1st Gen I should buy a few of those too...

[YotaFun]

This one really ticked me off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-LZPVy8X00

The kid looks all pissed like he has to get rid of it.
Unless it was like under his parents name and they made him do it, what a stupid guy to key the thing and beat it....

[neliconcept]

so technically i could take a 78 chevy truck in and get money?

[YotaFun]

so technically i could take a 78 chevy truck in and get money?


Something like that.
I think you would have had to own the vehicle before some time for you to qualify for it, if my understanding is correct.

[corax]

so technically i could take a 78 chevy truck in and get money?


Something like that.
I think you would have had to own the vehicle before some time for you to qualify for it, if my understanding is correct.


yep, need to have owned it for 1 year previous to trading it in

[CJM]

That LC they blew up looks oddly familiar..infact it looks eerily similar tot he one i jumpstarted the other day for the guy to take it in. If it is, it honestly wasnt in that good of shape-it was all RUSTED OUT underneath and thru int he frame in parts.

[slosurfer]

so technically i could take a 78 chevy truck in and get money?


NO, it can't be older than like an '85 or something like that.


I haven't seen anything about them being crushed. The motor gets seized and then it goes to the junkyard. I think once there, it is just like any other car they get there. More than likely, it sits in the yard and gets stripped and then eventually gets crushed. I don't think they are going straight to the crusher. So, if anything, now is the time to go scrounge for parts. I bet there are a bunch of 4.88 8" diffs from auto 2nd gen 4runners out in the yards now.

[Crinale]

the vehicle has to be turned in for c4c prior to 25 years after its manufacturing date... to prevent people turning in classics.

also, as far as junk yards are concerned... they have 180 days to crush the vehicle, and are limited in what parts they can sell. i cant find anything that says what they are limited to tho... if they dont provide proof to the government that the vehicle was crushed within 180 days, there is a fine of $15,000 per vehicle not crushed imposed on the yard.

im trying to get one of the local dealers to sell me a couple body parts off of a c4c vehicle, but the dealer's owner is out of town, so i wont hear anything just yet on whether they will or not. if they do, u can (hopefully) expect a few new goodies on my 4runner for pismo ;)

[corax]

Also the techs at the dealers are stripping anything they want off them - tires, radios, speakers, interior bits, etc

[YotaFun]

Also the techs at the dealers are stripping anything they want off them - tires, radios, speakers, interior bits, etc


Damn I need to get into a dealer!

[CJM]

So tell me, what counts as proof they crushed it?

FWIW they strip ALL usable parts period off of them, body, interior, etc, etc. What your usually left with is a frame and thats it.

[Crinale]

So tell me, what counts as proof they crushed it?

FWIW they strip ALL usable parts period off of them, body, interior, etc, etc. What your usually left with is a frame and thats it.


thats what they do with normal wrecked vehicles, but the CARS law (from what ive read) limits what they can take off, and what has to go into the crusher or shredder...

[CJM]

thats what they do with normal wrecked vehicles, but the CARS law (from what ive read) limits what they can take off, and what has to go into the crusher or shredder...


Still, whats proof? Do they take a physical photo of it before they crush it, does some kinda inspector look at it???

Imho, even if it was the above-ways around that.

[YotaFun]

Well, I have a friend that works at a dealer that got some 4Runners in :-(
He is going to try to get me some parts I need but it's sad to hear that beloved 3rd gens and the wonderful 3.4l is being destroyed.

Just about brought a tear to my eye infront of my classmates :-(

[Crinale]

wow... i havent seen any 3rd gens at the local lot... there is a couple 2nd gens, an fj60 and an fj80 though :(