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View Full Version : Mil-Surp Rifle Cleaning. Electrolysis Method.



04 Rocko Taco
07-28-2009, 11:47 AM
Okay guys, so after a bit of research I have decided to give both of my 1943 Mosin Nagant M91/30's a dose of electrolysis to remove the decades of fouling from the bores.
I have one "clean" rifle, it is my all original '43, and one "dirty" rifle which is my sporterized one. I spend about 3 times as much time and effort on cleaning the sporterized one, but can never get the bore clean, but the original one looks like a mirror.

Okay first, the setup for electrolysis...

After a lot of research it looks like any solution that doesn't have a neutral pH will work just fine, acids are better.
After reviewing a lot of suggestions and pH discussions, I decided on what seems to be the most common solution. 1 part vinegar, 1 part ammonia, and 2 parts water (tap, not distilled).

From what I gathered I have seen people using anything from 1.5 volts up to around 8 volts. The commercial kits seem to use right around 3 volts. I chose an old cell phone charger for my power supply. 3.7 volt, 340 mA output. I cut the end off of the charger, and spliced some alligator clips to the wires. You can also do this by stacking batteries. Alkaline batteries (AAA,AA,C,D, whatever) will be nominally 1.5 volts, so you can use the battery holder from a flashlight, or just put them end to end and tape the wires to the batteries to acheive the right voltage. Remember that C's or D's have more power reserve than AA's, but they are still the same 1.5 voltage.

You will need a steel rod, sizes may vary with your rifles, I chose a 4' steel welding rod from Lowe's. You will need to wrap electrical tape around the steel rod, one wrap at the end that will rest down at the breach end of the rifle, and again up at the end inside the muzzle, so that your rod will not short out the system by touching the barrel.

You will need a rubber stopper (again sizes will vary with rifle, I sourced mine from Lowe's) You will need to insert the rubber stopper into the breach end of the bore, and secure it, you can test your stopper with a little bit of water in the bore to see if it leaks.

I taped a funnel to the end of the barrel to facilitate the pouring and to handle the foaming action of the solution.
Once the funnel is secured in place, then you simply pour your solution in, pour slowly to allow the air to escape, then insert your rod into the bore, remember to double check your tape, as it needs to be enough to keep the rod from contacting the side of the barrel, but not so much as to block the flow of liquid or detritus from the bore.

Once this is set up, simply hook the positive lead of your power source to the barrel of the rifle, and connect the negative lead to the electrode (rod).

Within a few minutes you should see some bubbles coming up out of the bore, congratulations, it's working. You really don't want this to run for more than about 10-20 minutes at a stretch. The foam will begin bringing up little specks of debris and fouling, and after the elapsed time, unhook your power supply, pull the rod (be prepared to wipe it down) and dump the solution, at this point you will need to remove the stopper, and clean your rifle normally. Repeat if desired. If left running for long periods of time at a stretch there is the possibility of the process leaving small voids in the bore of the rifle.

Most write ups I have seen recommend a 3 cycle process. I am prepping for 2 on my "clean" rifle, and expecting 4 or more on the "dirty" rifle. I will post pictures of the setup and results once I finish.

UPDATE:
Pictures!! (this was all with the "clean" rifle, sorry no pictures of the "dirty" rifle. Also, I stripped all of the stock and handgaurd off, so as to avoid any damage done to the original wood.

Here is my electrolysis rig setup.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2175.jpg
Solution (1/2 cup vinegar, 1/2 cup ammonia, 1 cup water - WAY more than needed to do my two rifles)
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2176.jpg
Hey look! it's working, first it bubbles, then it builds up as foam...
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2180.jpg
Then my foam looked like this... (on the "CLEAN" rifle!!!!)
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2174.jpg
This is the crud I wiped off of the rod after cycle 1.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2177.jpg
and this is the solution that came out of the bore...
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/04RockoTaco/Guns/Electrolysis/DSCF2185.jpg

CJM
07-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Interesting, have you tried "ed's red" before doing this? It removed EVERYTHING from my friends gun when we tried it.

04 Rocko Taco
07-28-2009, 05:30 PM
tons of cleaners and cleaning products down the barrels of these things.
and it has always brought gunk out, just figure these things are going on 70 years old, and I have no idea the cleaning regiment done before they were in my possession, so I thought I would give it a shot. Pics are forthcoming, but the "clean" rifle (the all original now runs patches through that I could put back in the bag to use as clean patches again, and it IMMACULATE. The "dirty" rifle is MUCH cleaner, and also runs patches out pretty clean, but could still use some good cleaning.... I dont know if I will try the electrolysis again, or if I will try something new, it shot fine before though, so now its just peace of mind and care for the rifle that makes me want to clean it. It's a great shooter, dirty or not. :)

CJM
07-28-2009, 06:27 PM
Yea sounds like it really worked well, might have to try it on some of my guns.

04 Rocko Taco
07-28-2009, 06:39 PM
Note of interest. IMHO - you should NOT attempt this on any gun with a chrome lined barrel...
They put the chrome on with electrolysis... so.... you do the math.

CJM
07-28-2009, 08:43 PM
Yea, i hadnt thought of that Chris..not a good idea at all.

04 Rocko Taco
07-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Updated with pics in first post.

04 Rocko Taco
07-31-2009, 02:42 PM
Okay guys, this has now surpassed the point of a normal hobby into the realm of an unhealthy obsession with getting these rifles clean, I was pleased with the way they looked before, happy with the way they looked after electrolysis, and now, I have to say, after 3 days of really doing nothing but cleaning these rifles, I am down right ecstatic.

I am proud to announce that the "dirty" rifle is now the "clean" rifle! There is no telling how many years (or decades, for that matter) of fouling and crap I pulled out of this barrel. You can now see a reflection in the bore, and it is VERY nice. :)
The old "clean" rifle is now immaculate. No matter what I use, brush, patch, solvent, oil, dry, I can no longer get ANYTHING out of the barrel. :clap:

In the last three days I have discovered Brownells wonderful little product called JB Bore Paste (recommended by a local gunsmith for chrome-lined, and polished barrels) and it has worked wonders for me!!
I've gone through about 250 patches, but it was totally worth it. Brownells also makes a product called JB Bore Brite which I may have to try next.

The Bore Paste is a polishing compound that is finer than jewelers rouge, and it removed all of the small burrs and smoothed out the pitting caused by all the years of crud in the bore, and it is simply amazing. I can only assume the Bore Brite is a finer still compound, and will let you guys know what I think once I can find some and give it a shot.


Now to get out to the range, and see if I can dirty these things up again. :hillbill:

CJM
07-31-2009, 04:29 PM
You do realize cleaning to much can actually harm the metal the barrel is made of, right? I knew a guy who cleaned his rifle so much he wore away the rifling enough to cause issues.

04 Rocko Taco
07-31-2009, 11:14 PM
yeah, you just have to be careful. I use a bore guide to keep from screwing up the muzzle end (can't exactly send 'em back to the commie factory to have 'em counterbored...), and am nowhere near the point of wearing away any metal in a 70 year old rifle. I use an aluminum cleaning rod, and a plastic jag, neither are materials that will do much harm to a peice of steel. :)

It certainly can heppen if precautions aren't taken though. I agree with that.


Plus: you gotta see the rifling in a Mosin man. :) it's some serious grooving. No worries bout wearing that away. :)

CJM
08-01-2009, 07:58 PM
Oh I know what ya mean Chris, just saying it for the benefit of everyone.

04 Rocko Taco
08-01-2009, 11:02 PM
I figured just thought I would let you and everyone else know that I wasnt just out to ruin some nice milsurp stuff. :)
I took them both to the range today, both, as expected, continued to shoot pretty well, and did around 1"-2" groups.