Not so happy after Tundra brake install

[blackdog76]

I replaced the calipers pads rotors and rear shoes on my 2000 4runner. Everything is new and I used the huge 13wl calipers.

#1 I can't bleed air out of the system. Fluid comes out clear of bubbles at all four corners, bled one at a time from furthest away from the MC to closest. Even tried bleeding the MC at the output lines. When engine is running and the brake is depressed I can hear an air gushing noise. When I stand next to the engine compartment and listen it seems to be comming from the ABS box when the pedal is depressed, then from the MC area when the pedal is let off??? When the engine is off, pressing the pedal once makes the air noise, then pressed again, it's gone with the pedal all the way at the top. I don't get it....

#2 There is a weird thumping sound comming from the passenger side caliper. Only happens at moderate to hard stops but somethings wrong there.

#3 Pulling slightly to the right also

[slosurfer]

Do those year 4runners have LSPV's in the rear? If so, that needs to be bled as well.

[MTL_4runner]

Do those year 4runners have LSPV's in the rear? If so, that needs to be bled as well.


No LSPV on 3rd gens with ABS.

1) Seems to me someone else had a similar issue a while back.
Have you done any searching on the forum, esp the Tundra brake threads?

2) Sounds like the spring clips aren't installed properly and double check your hardware install.

3) I'd bet #2 and #3 are related.

[Seanz0rz]

Jamie, i thought the 99+ with the traction control have an lspv? the person who had this issue on this site was xonetruthcrewx. here is his thread: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3245.0

are the calipers new? or remanufactured? there is a difference. you could have a sticking piston causing problems 2 and 3.

[waskillywabbit]

Did you let the MC run dry? If so you'll need to bench bleed it.

:guitar:

[slosurfer]

Jamie, i thought the 99+ with the traction control have an lspv? the person who had this issue on this site was xonetruthcrewx. here is his thread: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3245.0

are the calipers new? or remanufactured? there is a difference. you could have a sticking piston causing problems 2 and 3.


http://toyodiy.com is showing a lspv but it is not applicable on the 2000 I was using, but the fact that is in the diagram means that it is applicable for some 2000's You would need the vin # to be accurate. Well, that and looking under there to see if you have one. :laugh:

[blackdog76]

They are brand new calipers. Took the car to a local shop and the tech said the MC was shot after taking it for a spin. I told him it wasn't leaking in back and he said that they can leak internally??? He also told me that the caliper that was making noise was installed incorrectly somehow. I checked it and it's fine. I'm thinking about returning it for another. I don't think the MC was ever dry I'm pretty good about filling it when bleeding. But just in case, I did crack the lines while I had someone on the brakes and bled the MC that way for about 5 squirts on each line.

[CJM]

One caliper could be bad-hence the pull.

MC could be bad, never hurts to replace it if you have some miles on the truck.

[04 Rocko Taco]

....just a thought, also with Tundra brake upgrades, you may want to go to a larger bore MC anyway. :)

[YotaFun]

MC's can leak internally.
As far as the caliper being installed incorrectly, I don't see how.
However with the pads or the springs that usually is possible and would cause the the noise, and pull.



....just a thought, also with Tundra brake upgrades, you may want to go to a larger bore MC anyway. :)


Shouldn't need it really, I have the larger tundra calipers and am just fine.
However if you would like a stiffer pedal you might want the larger MC

[blackdog76]

There are 2 pins holding the pads in place and 3 clips holding the pins in place. Not much to screw up there either. Install is fine, I'm thinking it's the caliper. Wheel off, rotor spins perfect in between pads. Wheel on, it spins fine. Clacking gets worse and worse the harder I step on the pedal. Pisses me off, it's a brand new reman from Cardone.

[Bob98SR5]

blackdog, did u see my writeup on 4runners.org on brake fluid replacement? There's a few tricks of the trade in there. esp regards to NOT cracking the bleeder valves too much and how to manipulate the brake pedals when filling and closing the bleeder valves. while my problems changing the fluids and braking effect was not as bad as yours, i did have issues and all of the fixes are captured in my writeup.

and yes, check to make sure you do or do not have lspv

[MTL_4runner]

Jamie, I thought the 99+ with the traction control have an lspv? the person who had this issue on this site was xonetruthcrewx. here is his thread: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3245.0


I don't have an FSM for the 99-02 4runners to verify, but I know they did have LSPVs on the Tacomas during those years. Here's a pic of the FSM for a Tacoma to check if you do in fact have one which may need to be bled although on a 4runner of that year I am skeptical it has one. Also the brake fluid accumulator should not be present on a 4runner until 01 so that isn't the issue either.

If you have access to compressed air, then building a homemade power bleeder will be the best way to get all the air out of the system and not damage the MC in the process.

[slosurfer]

blackdog, can you post up more info on your runner so we can know more exactly what we're working with?

year-2000
tranny?
engine?
2wd/4wd?
tow pkg?

[blackdog76]

NO LSPV
2000 4runner sr5
V6
2wd
auto tranny
tow package

[blackdog76]

Great writeup by the way. I'll be using all those tips and also be using speed bleeders at all corners.



blackdog, did u see my writeup on 4runners.org on brake fluid replacement? There's a few tricks of the trade in there. esp regards to NOT cracking the bleeder valves too much and how to manipulate the brake pedals when filling and closing the bleeder valves. while my problems changing the fluids and braking effect was not as bad as yours, i did have issues and all of the fixes are captured in my writeup.

and yes, check to make sure you do or do not have lspv

[CJM]

Ill warn you now about speed bleeders: I tried a set one time and found that they didnt seal right. I checked the threads with a gauge and the threads were off a bit. Ok sent back and got a new set, same thing, okay 3rd set-still leaked!

I dont like them, I like the 2 person method. 1 pumps pedal, the other opens the valve. FWIW I always pump up the pedal, hold and when the person cracks the bleeder I push the pedal to the floor. I also gravity bleed-which is you open the bleeders a crack and let them be for a bit till fluid drips out-this eliminates excess air.

I just did an entire brake job pretty much (minus rotors) on a friends 86 fullsize Bronco. We replaced the pads, the calipers and other bits. Did the above and he has no issues.

if you dont use the 2 man method, the homemade power bleeder someone wrote up here is EXCELLENT! Ive also seen before (and I wish I could find pictures) of a homemade bleeder system where you take a threaded hosebarb adapter, a master cylinder cap and some nuts/fender washers and put the hosebarb and attach it to the MC and make sure its on good with some sealant. Then you simply take a small air pump and pump it up, a simple hand mityvac works well. All you need is about 10-15 psi.

[CJM]

Bingo, I found the 1 man bleeder using a modified master cylinder cap!

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/pressure-bleeder/bleeder.shtml


Also one with nice pics and write up at TTORA..

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83825

[corax]

I prefer the lazy way of bleeding brakes (which has worked fine for me in the past + no funny looks from the wife when I ask her to help): "gravity bleed" -- on level ground with the reservoir cap off, crack open the bleeders one at a time in the correct order with a drain pan to catch the fluid - gravity will make the fluid drain out and since the lines and hoses are small enough (and fluid viscosity thick enough) any bubbles will just go along for the ride and out into the drain pan, works good if you have a beer handy to pass the time :D

[CJM]

^ Problem with that is you only get the majority of air out of the lines, not all of it.

[MTL_4runner]

Bingo, I found the 1 man bleeder using a modified master cylinder cap!

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/pressure-bleeder/bleeder.shtml


Also one with nice pics and write up at TTORA..

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83825


Pressure bleeders are definately THE best way to bleed brake lines.

Here's the one I built at home:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/mtl_4runner/Tundra%20Brakes/4runnertundrabrakes008Large.jpg

[blackdog76]

OK....replaced MC. Used my new homemade power bleeder (works awesome), air in the lines is a mute point now. Thumping noise still coming from passenger side. It's got to be the rotor. Stops like a mofo now but....

The brake line coming out of the MC toward the booster is seeping a little fluid after a test drive. It's an A-1 Cardone Master cylinder and I highly suggest staying away from this brand. The fist MC I got was missing parts, and had gouges all over it like it had been through hell. Not to mention that I was used already and was drenched in brake fluid??? I had to return it and the replacement wasn't much better. Same Cardone crap, looks like junk compared to my stock unit, and the bore must not have been perfectly true because even with the lines tightened to the old mechanics feel max, the rear line leaks a little. Man, I'm really looking forward to returning it and buying a more expensive quality one and then doing the bleeding process all over again. I think I'm going to :gunner: someone. I don't know how they think they can get away with quality control that bad. Yeah I know it's not OEM but dude, maybe they can actually sell something that ACTUALLY WORKS? Something that would make me feel good about installing it on the family wagon?

Both calipers are alsonA-1 Cardone. My calipers and MC are made from cores that are absolute junk, bottom of the barrel, put together by ing monkeys!!!! The caliper that I returned was dragging and missing parts. The one that came in as a replacement was gouged all over and looks like crap. It does work OK but one of the piston boots was folded in so I had to pull it out before installing it. Since I returned one I have had the chance to see three of them and they all look like they were assembled at three different slave labor camps with whatever was laying around at the time. The one on my driver's side is gold with silver zinc bolts, the one on my passenger side is raw steel with raw steel bolts. The one I returned was raw steel with gold zinc colored bolts. I painted them both dark grey metallic so they wouldn't look like such rag muffin crap.

Don't even get me started now on Raybestos. I bought their top of the line advanced technology rotors, the ones that NAPA sells repackaged at top dollar, and it's warped out of the box. They are suposed to have less runout than OEM! I guess they forgot to check mine. As a matter of fact, just stay away from Kragen, Checker, Shucks, O'Rieleys, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. All they sell is crap. I know you get ripped at Toyota but look at what I've gone through. This has been ongoing to two weeks now.

[Seanz0rz]

glad you got your problems figured out, sort of.

i purchased reman calipers from napa. left one started leaking when i was in the mountains, that was a FUN trip home! napa replaced with a working unit no questions. i purchased brembo rotors that are holding up great, along with my brake pads (brand escapes me atm)

hope you get it all worked out!

[corax]

Don't even get me started now on Raybestos. I bought their top of the line advanced technology rotors, the ones that NAPA sells repackaged at top dollar, and it's warped out of the box. They are suposed to have less runout than OEM! I guess they forgot to check mine. As a matter of fact, just stay away from Kragen, Checker, Shucks, O'Rieleys, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. All they sell is crap. I know you get ripped at Toyota but look at what I've gone through. This has been ongoing to two weeks now.


not the best brand, but I've never really had any problems with Raybestos in the past - are you sure there wasn't any bits of rust or debris between the hub and the rotor that would have made it mount less that true?

[CJM]

Cardone sucks for parts like that, surprisingly my motor mounts made by them seem fine.

I have brembo rotors, hawk pads and bendix calipers.

Raybestos sucks btw..

[blackdog76]

Cardone sucks for parts like that, surprisingly my motor mounts made by them seem fine.

I have brembo rotors, hawk pads and bendix calipers.




Don't even get me started now on Raybestos. I bought their top of the line advanced technology rotors, the ones that NAPA sells repackaged at top dollar, and it's warped out of the box. They are suposed to have less runout than OEM! I guess they forgot to check mine. As a matter of fact, just stay away from Kragen, Checker, Shucks, O'Rieleys, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. All they sell is crap. I know you get ripped at Toyota but look at what I've gone through. This has been ongoing to two weeks now.


not the best brand, but I've never really had any problems with Raybestos in the past - are you sure there wasn't any bits of rust or debris between the hub and the rotor that would have made it mount less that true?




Don't even get me started now on Raybestos. I bought their top of the line advanced technology rotors, the ones that NAPA sells repackaged at top dollar, and it's warped out of the box. They are suposed to have less runout than OEM! I guess they forgot to check mine. As a matter of fact, just stay away from Kragen, Checker, Shucks, O'Rieleys, or whatever they are calling themselves these days. All they sell is crap. I know you get ripped at Toyota but look at what I've gone through. This has been ongoing to two weeks now.


not the best brand, but I've never really had any problems with Raybestos in the past - are you sure there wasn't any bits of rust or debris between the hub and the rotor that would have made it mount less that true?

Raybestos sucks btw..


Don't think so but I'll check.

[blackdog76]

Ready for this? Brand new master to replace the crappy cardone, and I'm now on my 3rd big bottle of synthetic brake fluid. Bench bled the MC and bled all 4 corners for the 4th time. Pressure good but the thumping on the passenger side still there. Replaced the rotor on that side and still there. Thought that the noise might have been comming from the other side so I swapped the rotor to the other side and it's 98% fixed???? It thumps lightly here and there, almost no existent and very faint??? Can anyone explain that one to me? I'm going to call it quits for now. I'm hoping that it has something to do with the pads bedding in and it will fix itself. I need the family wagon back in operation. The family K5 Blazer is fun and all but not too fuel efficient and comfortable.

[CJM]

Sounds to me like a cheap rotor. Did you just swap the rotor or get a new one? If you got a new one I think it could be a defective caliper.

[Seanz0rz]

is your wheel rubbing on the caliper?

[CJM]

is your wheel rubbing on the caliper?


Ah yea good call sean.

You may have to grind off about 1/8 off the caliper where it will hit the wheels on the truck.

[MTL_4runner]

is your wheel rubbing on the caliper?


X2 good call on that.

Look at the back of the rim for rub marks and either clearance the rims or the caliper. Just be sure not to take off too much material on the caliper or you may cause a failure of the internal fluid passageways.

[Seanz0rz]

i heavily clearanced my caliper. the tundra calipers are VERY thick.

[blackdog76]

The rotor was replaced under warranty as was the caliper on that side. Like I said, I swapped them from side to side and it made the noise and thumping go away 99%. I don't understand it. I first swapped the pads and it made a small difference, then tried the rotors. Calipers aren't touching the wheels. I have the 5 star pattern 16" wheels. Plenty of room. I'm sure you would hear plenty of noise while braking or just moving if that was the cause anyway.

[Seanz0rz]

did you clean the rotors with brake cleaner? alot come with a protective coating that needs to be removed.

also, are you torquing your lug nuts to spec? 83 footpounds