View Full Version : Auxilary lighting wiring???
ttora4runner
09-29-2009, 05:31 AM
Well, I'm getting ready to wrap the mods up on my 4runner for awhile and last couple of things on the list involves a set of lights namely (Lightforce) and a Blue Sea fuse block (6). A high lift jack is the last item on the list.
Currently, I have my CB and a set of PIAA 510 fog lights wired directly to the battery put the power/hot connector for the battery is a pos and needs replacing and I don't like running those accessories off of it because of that fact (yes, I know I can replace it).
So the plan is to wire them to a blue sea fuse block (found on for a good price off a marine equpiement site) to help clean things up a bit. As well as wire in a second set of lights (got to love Shrockworks for including spaces for additional lights on the bumper.
Now the question I have is what guage wire should I run from the fuse block to the battery? How would you all attach the fuse block: just velco it to the top of one of the factory fuse blocks or attach it to the firewall? I've used the search function and my head is just spinning from reading.
mastacox
09-29-2009, 06:10 AM
Now the question I have is what guage wire should I run from the fuse block to the battery? How would you all attach the fuse block: just velco it to the top of one of the factory fuse blocks or attach it to the firewall? I've used the search function and my head is just spinning from reading.
I would run 10 gauge wire from the battery to the fuse block to handle all 6 circuits allowing for future additions, and then 14 gauge wire to the lights (my HID's have 16 gauge wire, but a 100W halogen pulls more current than an HID setup). My Painless 7-circuit fues block has either 10 or 12 gauge to the battery, and then I think 16 gauge wires out to all of the components. I mounted it under the hood to the passenger-side fender just in front of the ABS system, it works great.
mastacox
09-29-2009, 06:19 AM
Check out this guide for sizing wire based on expected current draw, Its numbers basically line up with what I've used in the past. Some other sites show that you can use higher gauges for higher currents, but I would use this one to be conservative. I do think 10 gauge can probably handle 30 amps in most situations, I used it on my 4Runner's electric fan (about a 6 foot run) and it seemed to work fine although the connectors did end up melting and I had to solder them instead...
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
It basically says for a 15 foot run:
5 amps - 16 gauge
10 amps - 12 gauge
15 amps - 10 gauge
20 amps - 10 gauge
25 amps - 8 gauge
30 amps - 8 gauge
4x4mike
09-29-2009, 07:45 AM
I ran 8 gauge to my Blue Sea fuse block. I goes from the battery through the fire wall to the blue sea that I have mounted under the stereo. I forget the length of cable but 8 gauge was the wire to chose. The only high draw device I have in the blue sea is my 100W hellas. The rest is led lighting, GPS and 5 amp circuit to my OBA.
8 gauge would be what I would use, but overkill is always better imho.
You can go buy a decent length of welding or battery cable (get the batt cable at your local autoparts store), then connect that up to the fuse block with a 30amp or so circuit breaker (for extra protection) inline. I used 4ga, but 6ga would work as well.
Then wire everything using 14ga or 12ga, thats the size I used and would use again. Although the light sets I got the wiring was 16 or 18ga and it probably woulda worked, larger ga wiring can handle the current better.
Robinhood4x4
09-29-2009, 08:03 PM
How about relays, do you have them in your plan?
4x4mike
09-29-2009, 08:33 PM
Hint: Answer should be yes.
ttora4runner
09-29-2009, 09:18 PM
Well, I ended up ordering the following from Marine Technology.
Blue Sea 5025 ATO Fuse Block, 6-Circuit with Cover and Negative Bus
Blue Sea 5001 SEA Mega Fuse Block
Blue Sea Mega SEA Fuses 100A-300A (ordered a 125amp fuse, fiqured that be enough).
OEM Toyota Foglight Switch
4x4mike
09-29-2009, 09:50 PM
I think I have my blue sea write up here somewhere. I'd run the smallest inline fuse to the box to minimize damage. As you fill the box update the fuse. I looked this morning but couldn't find it but I thought I read somewhere the the 6 spot box is only good up to 100 amps.
ttora4runner
09-29-2009, 09:59 PM
I think I have my blue sea write up here somewhere. I'd run the smallest inline fuse to the box to minimize damage. As you fill the box update the fuse. I looked this morning but couldn't find it but I thought I read somewhere the the 6 spot box is only good up to 100 amps.
Ya, I just caught that as well and changed my order.
ttora4runner
10-12-2009, 06:01 PM
Need some input if this sounds right for the right gauge of wire.
Ok. If I got this fiqured correctly.
Lightforce 170 lights - 12v x 100w = 8.33 amps per light
Piaa 510's - 12v x 55w = 4.5833 amps per light
Cobra ST WXST II CB - 12v x 4w (I believe) = .33 amps
Total amp - approx. 30 amps. So 7 gauge wire would then (I won't use it though)? Could I get away with 6 gauage?
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Seanz0rz
10-12-2009, 06:07 PM
6 would work i suppose. what are you actually running and where? would the piaa's be on at the same time the 170's will be?
ttora4runner
10-12-2009, 06:58 PM
6 would work i suppose. what are you actually running and where? would the piaa's be on at the same time the 170's will be?
What is going to be connect to the fuse block is my cb, fog lights (piaa's) and the driving lights (lightforce). I'll be mounting the fuse block in the engine bay as close to the battery as possible.
I don't know if I'll have both sets of lights on at the same time but there is always that possiblity.
Seanz0rz
10-12-2009, 07:04 PM
you should have no problem with 6 gauge wire. i ran 5 gauge (what i had left over from a stereo install) for mine, and it will handle at the very least 100 amps spike, about 50 continuous.
Im sure 8 gauge would be fine.
In my work van we used 8 gauge to run the power wire for a lightbar that has 4 100w H1 halogens in the rotators, 4 55w flashers and 2 55w alley lights (side lights) and trust me it runs it all without a hitch. All I used was a 30amp fuse too and never an issue. I have had every single one on at once and my compressor and no issues.
Also have a decent sized 12v compressor we use a 30amp circuit breaker fuse on and ran the power wire with 8.
You could simply go out and buy a long 4 or 6 ga battery cable, snip off the ends and put on rings on each end. Also might want to cut it in half and run a circuit breaker fuse in the middle.
My setup is in the earlier post.
corax
10-12-2009, 07:45 PM
even 8 gauge is more than you need for just 30 amps - it really depends on how long the wire run is . . .
reference this page to determine what wire size you need -> http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm
As an example, I've been running my 2 100w aircraft beams on 14 gauge wire with no issues for the last year, that is, one strand of 14 ga from the relay to the first light with a branch off for the second light - no overheating, no diminished performance (measured by voltage drop in the circuit)
ttora4runner
10-12-2009, 07:56 PM
Im sure 8 gauge would be fine.
You could simply go out and buy a long 4 or 6 ga battery cable, snip off the ends and put on rings on each end. Also might want to cut it in half and run a circuit breaker fuse in the middle.
My setup is in the earlier post.
I acutally went down to the autoparts store and noticed that. I may end up just doing that.
FWIW to run my lightbar or compressor its about 15 feet of 8 ga wiring.
ttora4runner
10-14-2009, 08:59 PM
Okay, I need a little help here with this one.
If I understand correctly the wiring from the lights and CB will be wired into the fuse block but then how would I run the wiring from the fuse block too the switches for the lights?
Would I just need to splice together the positive, negative and ground wire together for each respective wire (ie. positive from lights and switches to one positive post on the fuse block, etc) or is there something else I'm not thinking of.
Also, the switch that is supplied with the lightforce lights has two prongs where the Toyota switch I'll be using has three prongs. So how do I deal with that?
Hopefully, this make sese I've never been very good with wiring up switches like this.
4x4mike
10-14-2009, 09:29 PM
Okay, I need a little help here with this one.
If I understand correctly the wiring from the lights and CB will be wired into the fuse block but then how would I run the wiring from the fuse block too the switches for the lights?
Would I just need to splice together the positive, negative and ground wire together for each respective wire (ie. positive from lights and switches to one positive post on the fuse block, etc) or is there something else I'm not thinking of.
Also, the switch that is supplied with the lightforce lights has two prongs where the Toyota switch I'll be using has three prongs. So how do I deal with that?
Hopefully, this make sese I've never been very good with wiring up switches like this.
Simple. You run a wire from your battery to your fuse box and then smaller wires to your accessories from your fuse box. A switch goes on that wire between the fuse box and the accessory.
Lights: Ground each light near where it is mounted. Run the power wires from the lights (most kits splice the lights together and then run them to a relay (power). My lights have switch in the 12v switched ignition power wire that goes to the relay. One of the 4 prongs on the relay is always attached to 12v. When the vehicle is on and the light switch flipped it completes the wire from the 12v switched source to the relay. The relay is tripped and the 12v constant source is allowed to flow through the relay to the light and you've got light.
Your lightforce lights most likely have a switch without a bulb in it. The third prong on the switch is a ground which lights up a light when the power is on. On my Toyota switch the light is orange.I'll look for that post that lets you know which prong is which. Basically power comes from your 12v switched source to one prong on the switch. Then you put a wire to the remaining prong (the third one was the ground for the orange light) and then to the relay. The switch is just an interrupter of that 12v switched line.
Hope this helps and isn't too confusing.
4x4mike
10-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Here you go (http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/switch/)
My switch looks different but I'm sure the configuration is the same. If in doubt just test with a multimeter. One of my prongs was gold and I think it was one of the prongs on the end (not the middle one). IIRC the prong far opposite of the gold prong (on the other end of the switch) is the ground prong and the middle one is for the leg of 12v to continue.
ttora4runner
10-18-2009, 07:52 PM
The wiring kit I got with the lights has the connections to connect to the positive and nagative battery post. Since I'm going to be running the lights off an auxiliary fuse block would I just then connect those wires to the fuse box since the block will already be wired to the battery?
4x4mike
10-18-2009, 08:53 PM
Yep. I saved the factory wires my lights came with and cut some wire for the shorter section. My relay is about 6 inches from the aux fuse box so it was easy. In the end my harness for the lights was 14 gauge.
ttora4runner
10-18-2009, 09:33 PM
Yep. I saved the factory wires my lights came with and cut some wire for the shorter section. My relay is about 6 inches from the aux fuse box so it was easy. In the end my harness for the lights was 14 gauge.
Okay, that answers that but I'll just modify the harness that came with it. The other question is then for the switches would I just run a second wire off the same post to the switch or would I just need the splice the wires together?
4x4mike
10-18-2009, 09:53 PM
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you using a relay? You'll want to run the switch in the line that comes from the switched 12v ignition source. This trips the relay that sends power to your lights from your aux box.
You an wire it with a relay OR wire it straight up and fuse it. AKA power to fuse to switch to back out of switch to device. The relay is safer overall since most switches arent rated high-but the fuse usually takes care of that. All I gotta say is I have a giant lightbar that pulls like 30amps with everything going wired in the manner I said and NO ISSUES.
And by lightbar I mean 4 100w halogen rotators, 4 100w halogen wigwags and 2 100w halogen side lights. Then again its an E250 with the ambulance package and iirc like 200amp alt.
4x4mike
10-19-2009, 06:47 PM
And by lightbar I mean 4 100w halogen rotators, 4 100w halogen wigwags and 2 100w halogen side lights. Then again its an E250 with the ambulance package and iirc like 200amp alt.
What the heck do you drive? Work? What do you do?
I work for a roadside service company. I install batteries, change flat tires, unlock cars, and jumpstart cars. We mainly work for AAA doing service calls all day. For this kinda work I carry 30+ different batteries, onboard air compressor (3 gallon 12v), I have all kinds of jacks, tools, lock out set (can break into nearly anything if I want to besides certain european cars) a jumpbox, etc. Basically I do whatever it takes to get you going on the road. Ask YotaFun, hes been with me more than once.
My lightbar is needed for many reasons: Chiefly to make sure no dumb schmuck hits me when im doing work on a busy road or hwy. I also use it in parking lots to have people spot me. But mainly for safety, its much better in person too.
Heres some videos, 1st one is of my actual bar the others are ones like it. Sorry i just took the one of mine and the camera is ok at best. Believe me in person its bright. FYI: lightbar is a federal signal streethawk 52 inch, i also have a arrowstick i gotta put on the back of the truck when I get a chance thats bright too. My boss's truck has a similar lightbar but he also has strobes in the signal and tail lights.
http://tinypic.com/r/2vt40hd/4
Federal Signal Streethawk Lightbar THE MOTHER OF ALL LIGHTBARS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InMQXZxM4Rc#)
StreetHawk Lightbar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydXUGBZy48M#)
ttora4runner
10-25-2009, 05:07 PM
Tought you guys might like to see the finished product. :wrenchin:
A few things first.
1. Thanks to those whole helped me with the my wiring ?'s. It wasn't that hard, I just tend to overthink things
2. Thanks to Wil and Wen at Sierra Expeditions. Great to work with. :thumbup: :clap:
3. For those 3rd gen 4runner owners with the Shrockworks bumper. If you decide to get a set of Lightforce 170 lights they will not fit in the holes provide by Shrockworks. You have to drill new holes about 1-1/2" over from the exiting holes and request the low light mounts. Otherwise the lights will be too tall by roughly 1/4 - 3/8". Thanks to Wil for the new mounts.
4. My mounting setup is for the Shrockworks bumper with the single hoop.
5. I reversed the lights mounts so no modification was required to the grill (have about a 3/8 -1/2" clearance).
6. The wiring hook up for the lights suck!!! The crappie connectors they supply you with in the wiring kit are junk (IMO). I ended up destory two of them.
7. Thanks to Johnny Lange of the Wasatch Cruisers for helping to mount the aux fuse block and fuse.
Okay, so here are the pictures after that little rant/soap box :sombrero:. Pardon the dirty battery. I still need to do some clean-up.
Aux fuse block mounting bracket (see #7). Kind of took us awhile to fiqure out where to mount the block since there are not that many good places in the 4runner's engine bay to mount it too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/1025091305.jpg
Aux. Fuse
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0107.jpg
Since I already have a set of PIAA fog lights installed I had to fiqure out a new mounting location of the lightforce relays. The best solution I could come up with was to mount it where the control for my DRL's was. Since I already disconnected them prior to this in seemed like a good place.
Where the module used too be:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/1025091328.jpg
Relay installed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/1025091336.jpg
I ended up mounting the inline fuse to the bolt/location that I have the relay for my other lights installed. By the way the mounting hole in the inline fuse is a little small. All of the wiring I tried to run along the left side fender under some of the hose's which made for some fun times.
Aux. fuse block all buttoned up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0106.jpg
The stock switch proivded with the wiring kit again sucks but that's my opinion so I picked up another factory switch. Only thing I have to do is run a ground wire so it will light up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0102.jpg
The finished product
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_01031.jpg
The clearance issue I mentioned in #3 and 5 above. The lights sit pretty flush/inline with the front of the hoop.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0104.jpg
I'll post up some night time pictures tonight once it gets a little darker.
ttora4runner
10-25-2009, 08:24 PM
All lite up (this was the only to come out decent since my camera doesn't take very good night time photo's)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0112.jpg
ttora4runner
10-27-2009, 07:39 PM
Well, another little item I picked up when I bought the lights were the Blue colored lens. I thought they would be a good investment for the winter time up here in Utah. You know for when I want to go play in the snow. :P
Any who these are the Combo lenses - pencil beam with a wide beam. The clear covers aren't that great in the snow since thye produce a little too much glare. Tried that out this morning on my way to work.
So I went out tonight to Canyon Creek (just a short little trail)to see how they looked and truth be told I had a blast with them.
That which is blue:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0117.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0118.jpg
Without the flash on:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0132.jpg
Headlights alone -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0140.jpg
Lightforce light with my Piaa fog lights turned on -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0139.jpg
Lightforce by themselves -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0141.jpg
It was interesting trying out the lights with different settings
1. Headlights only
2. Fog lights by themselves
3. Fog lights plus headlights
4. Lightforce with fog lights
5. Lightforce by themselves
6. Headlights plus Lightfoce
7. Headlights plus fog lights plus Lightforce.
Lets not forget the high beams, which adds another four combs to the mix. :drool:
Having that main combinations is interesting. I found myself on the return trip just running my fog lights and the Lightforce lights all with no other lights on (got to love removing the DRL module :sombrero:). Running the Lightforce lights just by themselves was quite interesting. They provide plenty of light to drive with but I found that just running them by themselves kind of threw off a little how different obstacles/objects in the road looked. When I ran them with the fog lights in corrected that problem for the most part. I felt all sneakie, sneakie just runnning the fog lights or Lightforce lights by themselves. :roll:
The Sneakiness... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYBVi3ALWA#)
As you can you tell I'm very happy with this purchase. I wonder how those inferred light covers do?? :headscratch:
One other benefit of this little run was I found out where I having been rubbing at under full flex.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0123.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0124.jpg
Saw this little feller and his friend playing around.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0122.jpg
Was going to cross this but not this late at night. Kind of hard to see how deep it was.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/tbox/Lights/IMG_0126.jpg
Seanz0rz
10-27-2009, 08:12 PM
well, it looks like you decided for me between the hella 700ff and the lightforces....
thanks for the pictures!
^ imho hella 700FF with the HID mod, better than lightforce dude.
Seanz0rz
10-27-2009, 08:40 PM
those filters are what gets me. i just like how the lightforces work. im due for a major lighting upgrade in the near future, so we will see what happens.
Yea i know the filters are cool too, about the only draw to the LF imho
slosurfer
10-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Yea i know the filters are cool too, about the only draw to the LF imho
They also can take a ton of abuse too, with no glass lense to break.
mastacox
10-28-2009, 06:53 AM
It's pretty much imposssible to beat the light output per dollar of a set of Hella 500's with a 35W HID conversion...
That being said a set of Hella 700FF's with a 55W HID conversion will cost about the same as a set of halogen Lightforce 170's (but the Hella's will throw a LOT more light). The Lightforces are somewhat more difficult to convert to HID as well, because they use a proprietary bulb and mounting assembly (Hella 700's use H3 bulbs). The interchangeable filters on the Lightforces is an awesome feature though... combo driving filters especially.
The Hella 700FF's have a good beam pattern that broadens somewhat as it goes out, but still has good throw (especially if you've got bright bulbs). I haven't been able to find clear rock guards for the Hella 700's though, which I'm sad about. I might try some 3M clear covering instead, and on my headlights too.
P.S.
You really shouldn't use the blue filters for snow (or basically ever), the best color to use in snow or fog is one that won't easily reflect off of it- which means low-kelvin colors like yellow (3000K or so). Blue (around 6000K and up, those filters look like they convert the light to around 12000K) is the color MOST likely to reflect off of snow, and therefore is least effective from a penetrating power standpoint. There are lots of threads about this very issue over on CandlePowerForums.com, and they all agree that using a blue filter in snow is just retarded. It's kind of interesting actually, lots of people over on CandlePowerFolrums view Lightforce's marketing as a complete sham, and most people over there prefer Hella for vehicle lighting systems...
4x4mike
10-28-2009, 07:56 AM
With all the driving I do in snow I can't see where blue would be better than a warmer color. My first truck had some fogs with yellow filters and they were great in the dark with snow. The 2wd wasn't so good.
slosurfer
10-28-2009, 08:04 AM
Yeah, I've read the CPF threads about LF filters and they are kind of retarded. All the people over there who do the bagging on LF have never seen them in person or used their filters for varying conditions/terrain. Most over there say that the yellow also won't work in the fog, but I can tell you from experience that the yellow filter (especially combo filter) works great in the fog (much better than a clear combo filter does). They also keep harping that Hella is DOT certified and LF's aren't which is retarded because who cares if your offroad aux lights are up to a govt standard.
The people over there who have/had LF's love them, but like most forums there are certain bandwagons that seem to be followed by most. They get really hung up on beam pattern/hotspots/etc.. which are more important with the awesome flashlights they make but aren't as important for us when we just want to throw a lot of light all around. I've been reading a bunch of automotive aux lighting threads there and you have to take what they say with a grain of salt as far as aux lighting goes.
That being said it's like comparing apples to oranges with two similar sized lights and one is HID and one is halogen. If you have a decent offroad light and can upgrade to HID, do it, because it will make it a really nice offroad light. :)
To the OP, awesome job on the lights/wiring you won't be dissapointed with those 170's. :)
I think the blue is supposed to be good for driving in the snow (but not hile it's actually snowing) I think yellow would be better for actually drivig in a snow storm. You can se in his pics that the blue works pretty good on cutting down on the glare coming back off the snow banks.
They also can take a ton of abuse too, with no glass lense to break.
Thats another plus to them. I myself have ben trying to figure out the hellas and a rockguard thing. Was thinking about making some possibly out of plastic or a metal mesh or adapting something else to fit.
Now hellas website i know says the kit comes with stone shields, but I assume those are just the fancy covers.
ttora4runner
10-28-2009, 05:39 PM
I've been reading a bunch of automotive aux lighting threads there and you have to take what they say with a grain of salt as far as aux lighting goes.
That's most or less how I take anything any more.
Thanks for all the comments, some interesting viewpoints.
4x4mike
10-29-2009, 07:48 AM
Now hellas website i know says the kit comes with stone shields, but I assume those are just the fancy covers.
They're not really that fancy actually. There are a few after market versions of a snap on clear cover (some colors I think). Boogeyman here on UY has some on his 500's.
mastacox
10-29-2009, 08:58 AM
Now hellas website i know says the kit comes with stone shields, but I assume those are just the fancy covers.
They're not really that fancy actually. There are a few after market versions of a snap on clear cover (some colors I think). Boogeyman here on UY has some on his 500's.
Hella makes clear stone shields for the 500's, but not for the 700's :P Lame...
I think I could make some outta some old wire fencing or stuff you can get at any home center, shouldnt be that hard.
ttora4runner
01-16-2010, 05:20 AM
P.S.
You really shouldn't use the blue filters for snow (or basically ever), the best color to use in snow or fog is one that won't easily reflect off of it- which means low-kelvin colors like yellow (3000K or so). Blue (around 6000K and up, those filters look like they convert the light to around 12000K) is the color MOST likely to reflect off of snow, and therefore is least effective from a penetrating power standpoint. There are lots of threads about this very issue over on CandlePowerForums.com, and they all agree that using a blue filter in snow is just retarded. It's kind of interesting actually, lots of people over on CandlePowerFolrums view Lightforce's marketing as a complete sham, and most people over there prefer Hella for vehicle lighting systems...
Ya, the blue filters kind of stink. I've tried them out a few times and they done ok but I'm not impressed with them.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.