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Bob98SR5
09-29-2009, 11:08 PM
Toyota Motor Corp. said it would recall 3.8 million vehicles sold in the United States as it tries to resolve concerns that floor mats in those cars and trucks could cause their gas pedals to become stuck, leading to uncontrollable acceleration.

The recall will be the largest ever in the U.S. for the Japanese carmaker, whose reputation for quality has been dinged by other recalls in recent years. The recall will cover eight models of Toyota and Lexus vehicles, including various years of Camrys, Priuses and Tundra pickups.

Last month, a San Diego man and three passengers were killed in a high-speed crash of a Lexus ES sedan. Before the crash, the driver called 911 to report that the gas pedal was stuck and that the car was going 120 mph. Investigators are trying to determine whether a floor mat played a role in the accident.

Toyota said Tuesday that it had been receiving complaints from consumers about uncontrollable acceleration because of floor mat entrapment dating to 2004, but was moved to act in part because of the San Diego accident and the publicity it has received.

"Obviously the tragic accident in San Diego was certainly an eye-opener for us," said Irv Miller, a Toyota spokesman. "We're trying to raise floor mat awareness."

Toyota said it had been in discussions with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for the last week to 10 days on the matter and that it developed the current consumer advisory in consultation with the agency.

"This is an urgent matter," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who oversees the highway safety agency. "For everyone's sake, we strongly urge owners of these vehicles to remove mats or other obstacles that could lead to unintended acceleration."

The automaker said it has engineers working on fixing the problem and, once it is resolved, the company will issue the recall notice to owners and cover any costs involved in repairs or the replacement of floor mats.

In the meantime, Toyota is asking owners of the eight models to remove their driver's-side floor mats. If they choose not to, they should at least confirm that they have the correct factory floor mats in the vehicle and that they are properly installed, a spokesman said.

The San Diego accident, which took place Aug. 28, is being investigated by the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. Toyota said it didn't know what the probe had found so far and couldn't say conclusively whether it was caused by the floor mat.

The driver in the incident was in a Lexus ES sedan loaner he had received from a dealer, Toyota said Tuesday. The vehicle had incorrectly installed all-weather floor mats, the company said.

Auto safety researcher Sean Kane said his group was reviewing more than 1,500 reports of unintended acceleration involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles since 2000. Although many of the incidents appeared related to the floor mats, Kane said, there may have been other causes, such as electronic control malfunctions.

"This is one of those issues that's going to take some time to unfold," said Kane, founder of Safety Research & Strategies Inc., a Rehoboth, Mass., automotive safety advocacy group.

Toyota noted that the floor mat problem -- caused when the mat slides over the accelerator pedal, preventing it from returning to normal position when the driver's foot is removed -- had been experienced by other manufacturers.

During the 1980s, German automaker Audi issued a series of recalls involving unexpected acceleration problems in some of its cars. Investigators concluded that in many cases, the problem was caused when the driver stepped on the wrong pedal.

The planned recall is the latest black eye for Toyota, which has built itself into the world's biggest carmaker partly on a reputation for building long-lasting, reliable cars.

In the last two years, Toyota has recalled more than 4 million vehicles worldwide because of problems with brakes, window controls, fuel systems, steering and seat belts.

In addition, in September 2007, Toyota recalled "all-weather" floor mats used in 2007 Lexus ES 350 and Camry vehicles in response to complaints that they could slip forward and trap the accelerator pedal. That year, Consumer Reports magazine said it would no longer automatically give Toyota vehicles its coveted "recommended" stamp because of reliability problems.

Toyota recommended a series of measures that could be taken in the event that a floor mat does jam the pedal.

If possible, Toyota said, a driver who is experiencing unintended acceleration because of the mat should try to dislodge it from the gas pedal and then pull over and stop the vehicle.

If the floor mat can't be dislodged, the driver should shift the car into neutral and press the brake pedal down firmly with both feet. Toyota said its brakes are designed to be able to bring vehicles to a full stop, even when the motor is at full throttle.

If that doesn't work, the driver should shut off the engine by turning the key to the "ACC" position. The driver shouldn't remove the key because that action will lock the steering wheel.

In vehicles such as the Prius that are equipped with an engine start-stop button instead of an ignition key, the driver must depress the button continuously for three seconds to turn off the engine. Do not tap the button, the automaker warned.

Some drivers have complained that the neutral gear can be hard to find on some Lexus shifters, Kane said, especially during emergencies.

"Once these vehicles have an unintended acceleration episode, it can be extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, to find a way to shut the car down," he said.

Crinale
09-29-2009, 11:41 PM
wow... if you cant keep your floormats from getting in the way of the gas pedal, you shouldnt be driving... lol. thats really quite sad that toyota needs a recall for this... :chair: :chair: :loser:

paddlenbike
09-30-2009, 01:24 AM
Last month, a San Diego man and three passengers were killed in a high-speed crash of a Lexus ES sedan. Before the crash, the driver called 911 to report that the gas pedal was stuck and that the car was going 120 mph. Investigators are trying to determine whether a floor mat played a role in the accident.


I heard some discussion of this particular event on the radio and was pretty shocked by it. Apparently the driver of the car was a Police officer or CHP, can't remember the exact details, but somehow he decided to pick up the phone and call 911 while driving 120 mph instead of pushing the brake, using the e-brake, turning off the ignition, etc. I was rather shocked by that, especially considering the training he had. I am sorry for all those who were killed in the accident, but I definately think it was preventable.

corax
09-30-2009, 03:05 AM
I heard some discussion of this particular event on the radio and was pretty shocked by it. Apparently the driver of the car was a Police officer or CHP, can't remember the exact details, but somehow he decided to pick up the phone and call 911 while driving 120 mph instead of pushing the brake, using the e-brake, turning off the ignition, etc. I was rather shocked by that, especially considering the training he had. I am sorry for all those who were killed in the accident, but I definately think it was preventable.


I thought I heard it was a passneger that called, not the driver. In that vehicle there is no ignition switch, just a start button which the guy wasn't familiar with (have to hold it in for 3 seconds to turn off while driving) and if he got it turned off it would have locked the steering anyway - the brakes got smoked/overheated trying to slow the car and didn't do anything - e-brake would do absolutely nothing or worse at that speed - though he could have still popped it into neutral



wow... if you cant keep your floormats from getting in the way of the gas pedal, you shouldnt be driving... lol. thats really quite sad that toyota needs a recall for this... :chair: :chair: :loser:


The problem is the floor mat is too close to the bottom edge of the accelerator, if the mat gets out of position just a bit the bottom eedge of the pedal gets stuck and won't come back up, this is a part that Toyota designed and sold - nothing to do with the driver or their skill level. The :loser: part is, "Toyota said Tuesday that it had been receiving complaints from consumers about uncontrollable acceleration because of floor mat entrapment dating to 2004, but was moved to act in part because of the San Diego accident and the publicity it has received." -- so they knew there was a problem and didn't take any action until there was a high profile story?

YotaFun
09-30-2009, 03:52 AM
I remember a few years ago we had a thread on this about the Tacoma havin a run away issue.
If this is was all do to floor mats I am suprised at what kind of tranning we got in drivers Ed if any general knowledge.
I have tested the whole stopping the vehicle with the brake fully applied and our vehicle are capable of it (even when I had the stock brakes)

I am also thinking the same thing as paddlenbike, call 911, I am at least hoping he made some sort of attempt to stop the vehicle before he made the call.

YotaFun
09-30-2009, 03:55 AM
Keith I would rather have burnt up brakes and live, just as long as I get stopped. Lol

Intrepidyota
09-30-2009, 04:45 AM
I must be a super genius! I have had a pedal get stuck down before (not a toyota) and my keen intellect was quick to suggest that I attempt to jam my foot under the pedal and pry it up! SUCCESS! I mean, if the pedal is stuck down, seems like step one would be to attempt to pull it up, step two would be put the trans in neutral and brake...step three...shut the car off?


This is actually sweet though, cuz until this recall is complete I have full license to speed to work, if I get pulled over, im gonna quickly flip the mat over the pedal and say that my crappy toyota gas pedal got stuck down. :D :D

YotaFun
09-30-2009, 05:42 AM
Was just talking to the Toyota lab guys, a fee of the guys working at dealers have had that happen to them on the prius and camry.
I still am so shocked that a hug recall like this comes down to floor matts, I guess it could be worse if it was something electrical...

4x4mike
09-30-2009, 07:48 AM
I heard some discussion of this particular event on the radio and was pretty shocked by it. Apparently the driver of the car was a Police officer or CHP, can't remember the exact details, but somehow he decided to pick up the phone and call 911 while driving 120 mph instead of pushing the brake, using the e-brake, turning off the ignition, etc. I was rather shocked by that, especially considering the training he had. I am sorry for all those who were killed in the accident, but I definately think it was preventable.


I thought I heard it was a passneger that called, not the driver. In that vehicle there is no ignition switch, just a start button which the guy wasn't familiar with (have to hold it in for 3 seconds to turn off while driving) and if he got it turned off it would have locked the steering anyway - the brakes got smoked/overheated trying to slow the car and didn't do anything - e-brake would do absolutely nothing or worse at that speed - though he could have still popped it into neutral



wow... if you cant keep your floormats from getting in the way of the gas pedal, you shouldnt be driving... lol. thats really quite sad that toyota needs a recall for this... :chair: :chair: :loser:


The problem is the floor mat is too close to the bottom edge of the accelerator, if the mat gets out of position just a bit the bottom eedge of the pedal gets stuck and won't come back up, this is a part that Toyota designed and sold - nothing to do with the driver or their skill level. The :loser: part is, "Toyota said Tuesday that it had been receiving complaints from consumers about uncontrollable acceleration because of floor mat entrapment dating to 2004, but was moved to act in part because of the San Diego accident and the publicity it has received." -- so they knew there was a problem and didn't take any action until there was a high profile story?



Yeah, no key in a Lexus. They were playing the audio on a morning radio show locally. I'm not as worried about my floor mats as I am with my maglight and water bottle that are usually near the driver side floor.

paddlenbike
09-30-2009, 10:10 AM
Had I been the driver and still managed to crash it, the accident investigators would have found it with smoked brakes, the engine blown from throwing it into neutral, the start button would be pushed entirely through the dashboard and the floormat would be lying as far from the driver's seat as I could throw it. It sounds like there is a problem with the floormat position but I think more could have been done to try and slow down or stop the car.

4x4mike
09-30-2009, 10:23 AM
Had I been the driver and still managed to crash it, the accident investigators would have found it with smoked brakes, the engine blown from throwing it into neutral, the start button would be pushed entirely through the dashboard and the floormat would be lying as far from the driver's seat as I could throw it.

Me too except that the driver seat may have also been soiled.

Nick
09-30-2009, 10:33 AM
I can see how someone might panic - new vehicle with ignition they are unfamiliar with; accelerating fast with no foreseeable way to turn it off. I'm not familiar with the transmission on that vehicle - if he did drop it in neutral and it's some many electronic transmission, maybe it didn't go into neutral anyway? Like how if you throw a ES in reverse going fast it won't actually shift to reverse until you stop.

That said, he, his wife, his brother (?)who made the call) and their 13 year old daughter died. Rest in peace folks.

Crinale
09-30-2009, 10:48 AM
Had I been the driver and still managed to crash it, the accident investigators would have found it with smoked brakes, the engine blown from throwing it into neutral, the start button would be pushed entirely through the dashboard and the floormat would be lying as far from the driver's seat as I could throw it.

same here, except the sides of the car would have been totally trashed too cuz my next idea would have been to slide along the guard rails or whatever i could find to try to friction slow the car...

YotaFun
09-30-2009, 10:56 AM
I just listen to the the 911 call....
I heard "our accelerator stuck and we have no brakes"
or something along those lines.
Def not a good note.... and like the rest of you, they would have found the car with warped rotors and no pads left with a gear shift in park and the button missing...

May the family in the car rest in peace and prayers go to there families.

Marc P
09-30-2009, 08:06 PM
This accident happened about 2 miles from my house and I drive that streach every day. I also work for Toyota. I have a few opinions on the matter...

The Lexus he was driving is similar in nature to mine. It has paddle shifters and an auto trans. I have shifted mine into neutral on the freeway doing 80 in both modes without issue. The Lexus as well as the new Camrys, etc have a push button start....if you hold it down while driving it shuts the motor down.

The floormat clips in the newer yotas suck...if you push on the mat the plastic clip lets it free. They need a better clip or clamp, and the guys at Toyota are smart...the will find a good solution.

Right now, Toyota has asked us to remove the drivers floormat from the list of vehicles...customers are not liking that so much so I hope Toyota makes a fix quick.

As far as the accident goes...I think with the time he had it was totally avoidable, but I guess when you have 3 other people in the car you are worried about panic can take over and common sense goes out the window. I feel very bad for the family and those affected.