Stuck Brake Pedal

[fenrisx]

So for some reason my brake pedal gets stuck sometimes. It's only when the car has been sitting overnight when it's cold out. Usually by the 4th press it lets go. Tonight however (-5 windchill) it was stuck for about 2 minutes of me pressing. It will barely move at all.. therefore no stopping when in motion.

What could be the cause of this?

(2000 4Runner 3.4L V6 Auto 4x4 / Highlander)

[Scuba]

Flushed the brake fluid recently..? When that stuff gets old it can build moisture, and that could lead to freezing ( specially if it's -5.. Burrr)

[CJM]

I second brake fluid could be freezing. Could be sticking calipers or wheel cylinders as well. Or could be the e-brake isnt disengaging if your using it.

Or the master or brake boosters going.

[YotaFun]

I would do a flush first.
It is really recommended that you flush your brake fluid every 2 years, but honestly, no one really thinks about it.
And since your truck is a 2000, do you recall ever it being flushed or you taking it to be flushed.

When I did my tundra brake upgrade, I flushed the system and put DOT4 fluid in,
DOT3 is the standard fluid but I decided to upgrade a little, no real big notice, I guess more piece of mind, don't do DOT5, its rated for a different type of brake system usually found in formula 1 and such

[corax]

WD-40 all the brake pedal pivot points and the pushrod going through the brake booster (gonna have to pull the MC away from the booster a bit, leave the lines connected) - also spray some WD40 through the one way check valve in the brake booster's big rubber vaccum line

[MTL_4runner]

Flushed the brake fluid recently..? When that stuff gets old it can build moisture, and that could lead to freezing ( specially if it's -5.. Burrr)


X3

If the brake system works completely normal after the pedal is "unstuck" then it is almost assuredly moisture in the brake system. You'll need to bleed the entire system but it's not nearly as bad as it sounds. If you have access to compressed air at home, it gets even easier. You can also modify a deck sprayer to give you compressed air as well to bleed them yourself.

DIY Power Bleeder:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1726

[fenrisx]

No, the fluid hasn't been flushed to my knowledge.

I figured that it was just the fluid was either:
A. Really old.
or
B. Had moisture in it.

I called the Stealership about it when it happened the first few times at the end of last winter, and he told me it probably wasn't the fluid. That the fluid is 'good for the life of the car basically' and that they 'usually don't flush the fluid out.'

I'll have to get that fixed soon though. I do not have access to compressed air, and I've never bled my brakes before. I wish I would have done this before winter kicked in again! Argh.

[Seanz0rz]

I called the Stealership about it when it happened the first few times at the end of last winter, and he told me it probably wasn't the fluid. That the fluid is 'good for the life of the car basically' and that they 'usually don't flush the fluid out.'



sounds like their song on the fuel filter too. usually the fluid gets bled out during normal brake bleedings. so im guessing over 10 or so years yeah it probably gets replaced once. i flushed my system when i did my rear axle work, then again when i did the tundra swap. you would hurt nothing except spend a few bucks on good fluid. i would check the condition of your cap too, if its cracked you want to replace that as well.

[fenrisx]

Yeah. I just had a buddy do my brakes for me about a month ago. During that process a lot of fluid was drained and new added (over one small bottle of fluid). I was hoping that would have helped my problem, but alas it's the same.

Could the moisture have gotten in through a bad wheel cylinder? The passenger side wheel cylinder was bad, and the driver side not too much better. We replaced the passenger side before realizing the driver side wasn't that much better. At that point I was frustrated with the whole thing and just left it. (After replacing rotors/pads & shoes the brakes seemed worse than before. Even after adjusting the shoes and bleeding it seems there's too much play in the pedal. Someone told me you're supposed to bleed starting with the wheel furthest from the master cylinder, which we didn't do.)

[Scuba]

Someone told me you're supposed to bleed starting with the wheel furthest from the master cylinder, which we didn't do


Cant help with the other stuff so I erased it.

Correct on that. IDK if you 4Runner people have the LSPV (I would guess you do) But you would want to bleed (in this case flush) in this order

1. Passenger rear.
2. Drivers rear.
3. LSPV.
4. Passenger front.
5. Driver front.

Flush until you see new CLEAR fluid coming out..

I use something like this
http://www.amazon.com/OEM-25036-Bleed-O-Matic-One-Man-Bleeder/dp/B000CMDP44
You can get it at autozone for 10-15
It has always worked for me, from brake bleeding to clutch line bleeding..

Try and flush when the weather is warm and not freezing..

Good luck !

[fenrisx]

Yeah my granddad was a mechanic, and he is the one that told me that. I just wanted to triple check. Where is the LSPV located?

When my buddy was bleeding the brakes he just bled each side front and rear, and he bled from under the hood. Is what he bled under the hood the LSPV? I'm thinking the improper bleed of my brakes is also the cause of the 'play' in the pedal (seems I have to press too much before it bites down).



Correct on that. IDK if you 4Runner people have the LSPV (I would guess you do) But you would want to bleed (in this case flush) in this order

1. Passenger rear.
2. Drivers rear.
3. LSPV.
4. Passenger front.
5. Driver front.

Flush until you see new CLEAR fluid coming out..

Try and flush when the weather is warm and not freezing..

Good luck !

[Scuba]

Looks like your LSPV is located on the opposite side as mine, So I think it's on the right (passenger side). And it is located on the frame rails in the back of the truck near the axle.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/suspension/leo1.jpg

Should look something like this
http://home.comcast.net/~ed.hughes/images/LandCruiser/LSPV_Before.jpg

In picture 1, if you see the gold bracket on the left you can follow the line to the LSPV on the right.

So if I am correct that the LSPV is in the spot I just concluded.
Bleed like this.

1. P rear.
2 D Rear.
3. LSPV.
4 P front
5 D Front

The LSPV will have a bleeder screw similar to whats on the brake calipers or drums..


I dont know why someone would bleed the brakes from under the hood..

[CJM]

Ive always heard to bleed the LSPV last out of everything. But I could be wrong.

As for the bad wheel cylinder, if you didnt replace it-do so now! Also you need to adjust the rear brakes on these trucks really far. Infact thru the inspection port it should look like the shoe and the drum are practically touching like 1-2mm clearance or so.

I would start by rebleeding the system after adjusting the rear shoes.

[fenrisx]

I might just take it to the dealer and have them do it. They charge $80. It would take me too long to do it myself; I'm pretty slow when it comes to working on my 4Runner. I spend a lot of time looking for what I need to do, lol. Plus my tools are still in Georgia, so that would be one more thing I'd need to buy.

It was stuck this morning when I left for work, and then again when I left work. It's really annoying!

I'm going to have my belts and water pump replaced around the middle/end of January. I'll just have them do it then.

Thanks for all the help.

[fenrisx]

Well I called the dealership today to schedule an appointment and apparently the price has gone up from 79.99 to 109.99.

So then I called Firestone... and they've gone up from 79.99 to 89.99... just great! :(

[Scuba]

DIY, 20 bucks !!

It's really not hard.

[CJM]

80 bucks? Get a 10mm combo wrench (I think its 10, might be 8mm I dont recall now), make sure you use the closed 12pt side and grab a buddy and go to town.

Use the pump method, buddy pumps pedal up about 5-10x then you open bleeder and air/fluid comes out and then you close. I usually repeat each side 5x to be sure I got the air out.

If you have access to a smaller compressor for 20 dollars you can build an air powered self bleeder.

[fenrisx]

Well unfortunately I paid the $80 to have it done, but it didn't fix the problem.

The next morning it was froze again. Even when they're not froze they still feel weak.. like they don't bite down quick enough. I figured that would have been a little better after being bled as well.

Back to square one... either that or they charged me $80 to pretend they drained the fluid and put new in.

[CJM]

Have you pulled the drums to verify that the rear wheel cylinders arent leaking?

I just dunno what else really besides a faulty master cylinder, but that doesnt add up either.

Can you pinpoint which brakes are actually locking-front or rear? Your not using your e-brake when you park at night are ya?

[fenrisx]

Well one rear wheel cylinder was replaced because it was leaking. The other needs replaced soon, but it wasn't leaking.

Nope, I don't use the e-brake when I park.

I;m not sure if it would be the font or rear. The pedal itself doesn't move... it moves just far enough that the brake lights come on.

[CJM]

Like the pedals falling overnight?

Perhaps the masters bad, bleeding off pressure.

[fenrisx]

Like the pedals falling overnight?

Perhaps the masters bad, bleeding off pressure.


The pedal doesn't fall or anything. It's up all the way, and is just stuck in that position.

[CJM]

Do you have access to a buddy? Do the 2 man bleed method, all you need is a 10mm wrench iirc.

Or you could build a self bleeder if you have a small air compressor, its like 20 bucks worth of plumbing fittings and an adjustable air gauge.

No real mechanics shops by you that are cheaper btw?

[fenrisx]

Well I've already paid the Firestone place to bleed 'em, and replace the fluid with new. It didn't seem to do the trick though.

I still need to get the driver side rear wheel cylinder replaced (already done the pass. side as mentioned in an earlier post), but it wasn't that bad when I replaced the drums and shoes.

It's only happened once in the past couple of weeks.. granted it just got super cold again this week.. which is when it happened.



Do you have access to a buddy? Do the 2 man bleed method, all you need is a 10mm wrench iirc.

Or you could build a self bleeder if you have a small air compressor, its like 20 bucks worth of plumbing fittings and an adjustable air gauge.

No real mechanics shops by you that are cheaper btw?

[Seanz0rz]

is it wet? could water be freezing between the drums and shoes or between the discs and pads?

[fenrisx]

I guess that could be. With all the snow and stuff here.

[fenrisx]

Just wanted to update this thread... still have the problem. After a lot of digging around I found that this is actually pretty common on Toyotas. The problem seems to be a check valve. I'm having a hard time finding a part# for this tonight.. regardless, where would you guys recommend buying it? If it's cheap enough I'll just get it form the dealership.

[Seanz0rz]

dealer only. I wouldn't put anything less on my brakes.

[Seanz0rz]

part number 44730-60060 valve assembly, vacuum check (brake). this is the only check valve i can find for the brake system. list price is right around 46 dollars.

i have no idea if that is indeed your problem or not. or even how to diagnose it.

if you need any other part numbers, let me know.

[MTL_4runner]

Here's a few photos for you that should help with that.

You can replace it but I would see if you can free it up a bit first with some PB blaster and compressed air (remember it works on vacuum so the compressed air would go the opposite way from the hose nipple on the check valve). You should be able to verify if it works or not to be sure that is in fact your issue.