Diesel trucks from the big 3

[neliconcept]

I may be looking to get a diesel soon and would like some input regarding the big 3 and what to look for/not look for and tell me some opinions.

also if this is in the wrong section.. my bad

I'll explain the use for it later

[DHC6twinotter]

I like the Cummins engine in the Dodge the best, especially when coupled with a 6spd. I like the Ford exterior/interior design the best, but the only Ford I would look at are the older ones with the 7.3 powerstroke. The 6.0 and 6.4 powerstrokes have had issues. The 2011 Super Duty is really nice, and it comes with a new 6.7 powerstroke. Considering Ford's track history with the powerstrokes the past few years, I wouldn't be in any hurry to buy a 6.7.

I haven't heard much bad about Duramax in the GMC/Chevy trucks. The early ones had injector issues, but that was sorted out in the first year or two. AFAIK, the Allison tranny behind the Duramax is probably the best in any HD pickup. Downside to the Chevy/GMC is that they have IFS instead of a solid axle like the HD Ford and Dodge trucks do. Nice thing about IFS though, is that it has r&p steering.

Just my $.02. :D

[neliconcept]

Yeah I like the Chevy for the IFS, not like im going to jack this thing up anyways. I may lift it 4 inches just to level and throw a more aggressive tire underneath, but Im looking at this more for the bigger bed, lighting, pelican cases everywhere, lumber and set building shit and possibly a camper shell for longer trips.

I'm thinking about traveling with it and doing shoots on location basically. possibly either going to cities where the agency will have the models on hand or be taking a model with me and packing her shit in the truck as well lol.

yeah I heard the 6.0 powerstroke was a pos. so yeah it would def be the 7.3 if i was to get it, which im assuming ended in 03?

Heard issues about the dodge not regarding the cummins, more like the trannies, other misc nonsense and what not. any thoughts?

I want to know if the Chevy would be the same.. interior really isnt much of an issue, as long as its somewhat clean, seats are comfortable, has good enough interior lighting.. and more cupholders than I know what to deal with.

[YotaFun]

Dan pretty much summed it up perfectly.

I personally on an HD truck do not like the IFS but to each his own I guess.
As far as the trans regarding the Dodge, its mainly the Autos I have heard having issues, If you can find a manual one you are set.

What size are you looking to go with here?
Reg Cab, Ext, Crew?
What bed size are you also looking for?
Short, Long?
You mentioned slight lift, so I am presuming you want 4WD?

Also price range?

I have always wanted a Diesel,
Eventually might get one.
And if I were to choose, I would stick with a Ford, Great look, Motor, and overall not that bad of a drive train (axle wise at least)
If you can find one with a Manual trans that would be awesome!

[YotaFun]

Here is a tastefully done Crewcab short bed:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4X4-7-3-LITER-POWERSTROKE-DIESEL-CREW-CAB-LIFTED-LARIAT_W0QQitemZ300378521228QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ Cars_Trucks?hash=item45eff47e8c

And here is a clean Crew Cab long bed:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-F250-7-3-POWERSTROKE-4x4-LARIAT_W0QQitemZ160387824201QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ Cars_Trucks?hash=item2557dbfa49

Also looking around, it seems rare to find a 03' with the 7.3 in it.

[DHC6twinotter]

yeah I heard the 6.0 powerstroke was a pos. so yeah it would def be the 7.3 if i was to get it, which im assuming ended in 03?

Yep, the 7.3 ended in early '03 with the 6.0 being offered in late '03.



Heard issues about the dodge not regarding the cummins, more like the trannies, other misc nonsense and what not. any thoughts?

AFAIK, the NV4500 5spd and NV6500 6spd offered behind the 5.9 cummins are good trannies. The new 6.7 has a 6spd manual built buy Mercedes, and honestly, I haven't heard anything good or bad about them. I wouldn't trust any Dodge automatic tranny though.



I want to know if the Chevy would be the same.. interior really isnt much of an issue, as long as its somewhat clean, seats are comfortable, has good enough interior lighting.. and more cupholders than I know what to deal with.


If you don't mind IFS, I think Chevy makes ok trucks, and I think they have the best auto tranny. I'd take a Cummins over a Duramax though. Personally, I like the exterior design of the GMC more than I do the Chevy. One nice thing about the Chevy/GMC is that they were available with the 4 wheel steering on the short bed models. I heard it works great for towing, but that is one more gadget to break.

I wish Toyota would hurry up and build a HD pickup.

Anyways, that's my opinion based on some reading I've done. Maybe CJM will chime in. I think he had some experience with some of these trucks.

[DHC6twinotter]

Avy, that first one is really nice!

[YotaFun]

My dream truck:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Ford-F350-Lariat-CrewCab-4x4-7-3-Diesel-Manual-DRW_W0QQitemZ170421941533QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Car s_Trucks?hash=item27adf0751d

[YotaFun]

Here is a Nice Chevy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-CUMMINS-DIESEL-4X4-DUALLY-CREW-CAB-6-SPEED-SHARP_W0QQitemZ290382888156QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item439c2b3cdc

[YotaFun]

Here is a nice dodge, Huge but nice, and I noticed, Dodge is the only one left that uses a lever to engage 4wd...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-CUMMINS-DIESEL-4X4-DUALLY-CREW-CAB-6-SPEED-SHARP_W0QQitemZ290382888156QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item439c2b3cdc

[YotaFun]

Avy, that first one is really nice!


Yeah Dan, def is nice

[DHC6twinotter]

Forgot to mention, one other thing about the Dodge "Crew Cab" is that it is smaller than Ford or Chevy. Dodge decided to cut some corners, and instead of offering a crew cab and an extended cab, they offered a cab sized between the two (quad cab). Later, they did introduce the MegaCab with a short bed, which rides on the same wheelbase as the quad cab long bed trucks.

From what I gather, the new 2010 Ram offers a more conventional sized Crew Cab, as well as a larger Mega Cab. :thumbup:

[Obi..]

Blake FWIW, the rig that's towed both Lil'Bro's as well as mine, both times has been the Chevy with IFS. Mileage sucks, even with the diesel, well, comparatively. If you want to be able to tow a 4000lb+ rig around serious mountain passes, or just about anywhere there and in between I can personally attest to it. My only complaint is the goofy looking hood vent things and the need for a more effective ground clearance and tire and wheel combination.

http://www.autobase.com/photos/00640/1051/10510608_o001.jpg

The alternate being as most have already said, and that being the Ford with the 7.3, I hate the Ford 6 litre engines when put up against the GM's, too many issues and service campaign's for my taste, but I have yet to have feedback on the newer models, one's coming up on 25k miles, so I can ask the guy and get that feedback if you like.

For some great info, visit the http://www.dieselplace.com forums, here's the Chevy info: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104403

[Obi..]

*Also seriously look into BullyDog (http://www.bullydog.com/) for some sick hop-ups that will not only increase horsepower and torque, but actually run cleaner out the tailpipe. Specifically the TripleDog or WatchDog. There's even a program you can download into a PDA or moreso, supposedly an app you can throw into an I-Phone, how sick is that! Only will work with your phone if you choose, so nobody else can hammer on your rig but you. :D

[neliconcept]

price wise im not even sure yet.

but i think an 03-05 or so chevy is what im looking at and they are still in the 20s and sometimes 30s which is retarded imo.

that first ford though at 17.5 would be ideal. id rather have an auto, manual in atlanta sucks balls, i have already borrowed a friends maserati and in this traffic i wanted to stomp that clutch trough the floor

[CJM]

I refuse to buy anything other than a Ford with the 7.3L. Dodge, cummins is good and manual trans are good but overall quality of the truck is worse than chevy or ford. Dodges track record is horrible tbh, its not so much the mechanicals (if you get the manual trans) as the thing nitpicking you period over little junk.

Chevy is ok, duramax is so so and allison auto is really nice. Hate the IFS, to much stress on a very heavy truck imho. Poor mpg period too, power is higher than the others but still-meh. Not many of them out there too, hardly see them if ever. Did go out to a few, all had injection pump issues.

Personally im torn atm between buying a ford 7.3L x-cab and a tundra myself. There is a reason tho last night about 90% of the plow trucks I saw were all fords..We got 2 feet and every single parking lot seemed to have a crew in it. FWIW my cousin works for a big company that does plowing during the winter-they got an entire fleet of fords with the 7.3L.

[DHC6twinotter]

I found this on wiki:



[Ford] 6.7
This engine is codenamed Scorpion.[3] It includes compacted graphite iron (CGI) block, Aluminum cylinder heads with dual water jackets, 29,000 psi (1,999 bar) high-pressure common rail Bosch fuel system. The system delivers up to five injection events per cylinder per cycle using eight-hole piezo injectors to spray fuel into the piston bowl. B20 biodiesel support (allowing greener fueling options of up to 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent petroleum diesel). Unique inboard exhaust and outboard intake architecture, an automotive-industry first for a modern production diesel engine. Honeywell’s single-sequential turbocharger features an industry-first double-sided compressor wheel mounted on a single shaft. Combines the benefits of a small turbocharger (faster response) and a large turbocharger (ability to compress and force more air into the engine for more power) in one unit. [4]

Emissions controls include exhaust gas recirculation, Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).

Output is planned to be 390 hp (291 kW) and 720 lb·ft (976 N·m).[5]

This engine was designed and manufactured by Ford, thus ending its legal problems with Navistar due to the high number of warranty claims on the 6.0 engine.

From what I understand, the 7.3 was designed by Ford. The 6.0 and 6.4 were designed by Navistar and weren't that good. If the 6.7 is being designed by Ford, than maybe the 6.7 will turn out being a good engine.

[YotaFun]

Dan the 7.3 was built by International, I don't know if it was a joint vetnure to build with Ford, or if Ford just got the motor like Dodge got theirs from Cummin's.

We have a few international trucks at the school that have the 7.3 in it.

[neliconcept]

I refuse to buy anything other than a Ford with the 7.3L. Dodge, cummins is good and manual trans are good but overall quality of the truck is worse than chevy or ford. Dodges track record is horrible tbh, its not so much the mechanicals (if you get the manual trans) as the thing nitpicking you period over little junk.

Chevy is ok, duramax is so so and allison auto is really nice. Hate the IFS, to much stress on a very heavy truck imho. Poor mpg period too, power is higher than the others but still-meh. Not many of them out there too, hardly see them if ever. Did go out to a few, all had injection pump issues.

Personally im torn atm between buying a ford 7.3L x-cab and a tundra myself. There is a reason tho last night about 90% of the plow trucks I saw were all fords..We got 2 feet and every single parking lot seemed to have a crew in it. FWIW my cousin works for a big company that does plowing during the winter-they got an entire fleet of fords with the 7.3L.


whats the mileage like in the 7.3?

that is an issue, i saw some guys say their chevy is getting 16-17, i was hoping more like 18-20, possibly better.

I need to hit up the dealership and check em out, give em a drive.

[neliconcept]

I do like this though

http://login.eznettools.net/adaptivestrategies/Jesse_James_F-250-Lawless.jpg

[neliconcept]

oh and what about an older dodge, 2000-2001, still problems with those as well CJM? I do remember my moms 1990 dodge minivan that had 3 trannies replaced, so thats my only issue.

[corax]

Dan the 7.3 was built by International, I don't know if it was a joint vetnure to build with Ford, or if Ford just got the motor like Dodge got theirs from Cummin's.


. . . and the Chevy Duramax is an Isuzu engine, correct?

[DHC6twinotter]

Dan the 7.3 was built by International, I don't know if it was a joint vetnure to build with Ford, or if Ford just got the motor like Dodge got theirs from Cummin's.

We have a few international trucks at the school that have the 7.3 in it.


Thanks, I stand corrected. That's what I thought too, but I think I just missread a wiki article. Your're right though. :thumbup:



. . . and the Chevy Duramax is an Isuzu engine, correct?


Yup.

[CJM]

whats the mileage like in the 7.3?

that is an issue, i saw some guys say their chevy is getting 16-17, i was hoping more like 18-20, possibly better.

I need to hit up the dealership and check em out, give em a drive.





Its a big truck, mpg isnt exactly what you should really be after. But they generally get 16mpg or so at best, remember its a heavy truck.

A diesel tuner chip, some good exhaust and some other mods you can easily get up to 3mpg or better than stock.

What I can tell you is that the chevy has more towing capacity and power but at the cost of the IFS and imho the wonderful GM build quality. Its a shame the Ford isnt rated higher-but you gotta remember that they built it in responses to the super duty lol.

[YotaFun]

With a tuner chip you can set it to eco mode and get decent gas mileage
but like Marc said, its a BIG truck, if your worried about mileage get a Tundra Crew cab...

[neliconcept]

yeah but gas mileage is always a concern, with any vehicle, noone expects hybrid numbers, but the best out of the 3 is good enough.

regardless, i had a long hard talk today with a toyota tech here in atlanta, and my options have broadened, I may even look at the new tundra, bed space, and cabin space is really the requirement, im not looking to tow a horse trailer with this, just payload capacity.

[CJM]

For pure payload capacity a gas engine will do fine.

Fords 5.4L is ok, by 04 they corrected the shallow head spark plug cross thread issue. Still that motor is strong, but make sure it was cared for if you buy used! They EAT oil and I know it-we got 2 work vans with over 200k on them with the 5.4L and about 1-2 qts of oil needs to be added about every 500 miles. Otherwise very strong motor.

If all you need is bed and cabin space and perhaps better payload than a regular old toyota sized truck can, a lighter duty model like a 1/4 ton might be it. F150 is rated at like 7000lbs towing and I think about 2500lbs payload.

[neliconcept]

id rather have something with a V8, t100 is out of the question, older tacomas are also out of the question.

maybe a new tacoma... but like i said v8 is what im thinking, maybe an 07 tundra.

def not a fan of the ford 1/2 tons.

i may just look for an 07 tundra with the 5.7. this will also be a transport vehicle in a way for some models too so it needs to be a bit newer and clean.

[YotaFun]

id rather have something with a V8, t100 is out of the question, older tacomas are also out of the question.

maybe a new tacoma... but like i said v8 is what im thinking, maybe an 07 tundra.

def not a fan of the ford 1/2 tons.

i may just look for an 07 tundra with the 5.7. this will also be a transport vehicle in a way for some models too so it needs to be a bit newer and clean.


Just to give you a heads up, the 5.7l is a guzzler, I drove my uncles mega cab around and I could never break 14mpg...
At that rate I would get a diesel and Tune it and possibly get more

[neliconcept]

damn really? saw gains of 19 on highway.

Just not sure where to head atm. A lot of people tell me a dodge 1 ton is the way to go, and others are telling me ford, though pretty much everybody has told me chevy completely sucks sans transmission

[YotaFun]

damn really? saw gains of 19 on highway.

Just not sure where to head atm. A lot of people tell me a dodge 1 ton is the way to go, and others are telling me ford, though pretty much everybody has told me chevy completely sucks sans transmission


I don't know, maybe dude.
I only had the truck for a week, and I know the first day I had it I played with it just to see what the 5.7l had to offer, after realizing this was a lot of engine for me I started to drive it gingerly.
and the computer said I was averaging 14.

I think it rose to like 14.9 when I was on the highway, and that is the best I can recall, It might have needed a tune up, but it felt like it was running great to me so...

I am just one of many, I think you need to go out and do a few test drives.

[CJM]

Dodge is a joke period..

A ford truck with the V8 will get 14mpg too.

Bottom line is, you aint getting mpg out of a big truck-just not possible.

HOWEVER if you can find an older Ford F250/150 with the inline 6 you can get 18mpg in town and 23 highway. With the right gearing its a beast, its no speeder but it has massive torque. Hard to find truck tho, I drove a 92 250 with a stick and inline 6 and i loved it. Wasnt fast but it could handle payload and towing pretty well. Ford quit putting the inline into the trucks in 97 tho..

[MTL_4runner]

I'm bringing up an old thread because I have a bit more insight now that when this thread was first started. I'm not sure there's alot of advice being offered in the thread that is first hand info (alot more my buddy said, or I see alot of these......big difference when you own and maintain one). We bought a new travel trailer for the family to go camping and the 4runner just couldn't cut it as a tow vehicle so I bought a truck that hauls my 6,000 lb trailer with ease. I would have liked a crew cab for the kids in back but I couldn't beat the price I paid for it. Extended cab still has a surprising amount of space in it for a family so it's worked out well. Anyway, I've attached a pic of my truck below.

My truck is a 2005 Silverado 2500HD, LS trim, Duramax 6.6L Diesel, Allison Auto Transmission, Extended Cab, Trailor Tow Package, Cruise Control, Auto Climate Control, CD Player, Electric Mirror Extender, Power Seats, Box Liner, 5th Wheel Rails, Tekonsha P3 Electric Brake controller, AFE Turbo inlet......alot more mods (esp EFI Live) on the way!

I've talked to a bunch of people about diesel trucks and test drove probably 30+ trucks in the process. Here's a few things to keep in mind if you are hunting for a diesel truck in the future. Again alot of this info has been relayed to me by other diesel mechanics/owners I've spoken with in the process.

Dodge

Cummins inline 6 cyl is a very robust design and has proved quite reliable
Common rail injection system is made by Bosch
Transmission tends to be the weak link on these trucks
Lots of engine and tuning mods available for the Cummins, most potenbtial for boosting torque/HP numbers
The Dodge trucks tend to be a bit sub par on the build quality
Dodge trucks have the fastest depreciation of any of the diesel trucks


Ford

Powerstroke 6.0L and 6.4L V8 motors were designed by Navistar, 6.7L designed in house by Ford
6.0L used Split Shot HEUI injection, 6.4L used common rail and 6.7L used a Bosch system like the Duramax and Cummins
Only 6.7L (2011) has been able to completely eliminate head gasket problems, both 6.0L and 6.4L can be problematic
Ford has supposedly licensed Cummins for 2012, very good move IMHO!
Basically if you're going to buy Ford, get the 6.7L or wait for the Cummins next year
Some engine and tuning mods available for the Powerstroke motor, but prudence is needed for earlier models
Decent build quality and holds their value quite well


Chevy & GMC

Duramax V8 engine is made by Isuzu and has proved to be quite reliable
LLY engine code was best, it was made from 2004.5 until the end of 2006
Uses a common rail Bosch injection system
LB7 suffered from injector issues and later LBZ/LMM motors had reduced MPG from DEF useage
Lots of engine and tuning mods available for the Duramax motor
Diesel engine is mated to an Allison transmission, basically bulletproof
Allison transmission was 5-spd from 01-05 and the better 6-spd was offered from 06-present
Trucks have decent build quality and hold their value very well


Up here in Canada I would have to say the Duramax is the preferred mode for hauling big loads by around 3 to 1 for any other brands. Same thing with construction sites, mostly GMC and Chevy diesels. This observation isn't exactly scientific but at least I figure I would pass along what I've seen through my experience in narrowing down my search for a reliable diesel truck at a reasonable price.

One thing about diesel though is that they hold their value extremely well. Your best bet is to buy a newer model higher mileage vehicle. Make sure to look for dealer service records, but it's not uncommon for diesel trucks to go 500k miles if they are well taken care of (nothing like gas domestic motors which are usually in need of a rebuild by 100k miles). I bought mine with around 200k on the clock and it still pulls HARD when I decide to get on the skinny pedal.....turbo will make you smile when that kicks in! So if you're looking for something to trade off to find a vehicle with a lower price used, don't be concerned about mileage on these trucks.

Feel free to hit me up if anyone needs help on working on/maintaining your diesel truck.

[Crinale]

nice lookin truck jamie.. my parents too have a 2500 hd, and i so wish it was the diesel, but the 6.0 hauls pretty nicely as well. im sure it will serve you well

[X-Tool Pimp]

Funny I have no problem getting 20mpg around town in my Ford and loaded with the 11' Lance, car trailer and my rig I was pulling 70mph and avg. 13mpg guess Im just lucky :thumbup:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc245/tonytoolpimp/New%20truck/truck0.jpg

[MTL_4runner]

Very nice truck X-Tool Pimp.

For comparison my truck is getting around 21-22 MPG Highway (flat, low wind, no rain) and 15-16 MPG City unloaded. On the highway at 70 MPH (flat, low wind, no rain) I get about 13-14 MPG towing my 25ft travel trailer.....not sure if I'm one of the lucky ones too. :D The biggest irony is that my 6200lb truck still gets better fuel economy around town than my 4400lb 4runner ever did (obviously towing anything it blows the 4runner away).

I also put a better/larger pic of the truck in above.

[DHC6twinotter]

We have a newer min-bus at work, and it's based on the Chevy 3500 van cab and chassis. It's got the Duramax/Allison drive train, and that bus will move. Waayyy quicker than my 4Runner. I'm super impressed with that motor and transmission. Huge amounts of torque, and the Allison shifts really smooth.

The other vans we drive are the 15 passenger chevy express 3500 vans with the 6.0L. I hate the motor/trans in it. Maybe something is wrong with the vans (government doesn't take care of them too well), but they can be really slow. Sometimes it's fine, but sometimes they feel like they lose 100hp. It's really bad...almost like the tranny is in 2nd gear instead of 1st. I have not been impressed with the 6.0. Friend of mine has a box truck with the 6.0, and he loves the motor, so maybe it's just something wrong with the government vans at work. :headscratch:

[CJM]

I drive a 6.0 chevy 2500 truck for work, even with some kinda misfire or vac line it has balls. Sounds like the vans are pos.

[MTL_4runner]

What makes me laugh is how many people see diesel on the side of the truck and think it's slow as molasses in January. Then they are totally dumbfounded when the truck shoots out of the hole at the light (thanks to turbo spooling). I mean you can't put down 600+ ft-lbs and not be accelerating quickly.

I'm too old to do it on a regular basis, but the occasional naive student has been dusted badly. :spit:

[YotaFun]

I was making an observation on the way to work.
It was interesting for every 10 Fords I saw there was one Chevy.
I think it has to do with the area.

Also the Fords consisted of either the last gen with the 7.3 or the newest gen with the new 6.7.

I always wanted a diesel, a F-350 Crew Cab Diesel Jacked up to high heaven on 37" with dual whips and stacks lol!

[X-Tool Pimp]

I always wanted a diesel, a F-350 Crew Cab Diesel




I got one Ill sell you :thumbup:

[YotaFun]

I always wanted a diesel, a F-350 Crew Cab Diesel




I got one Ill sell you :thumbup:


But I don't want a dually....

[wildhorse1966]

i had a 2007 tundra 2wd drove it 47K and got 18mpg oh highways and if i was towing 7K on the trailer (towing the truggy and 2 quads) i got 10mpg when i tow my boat (5Klbs)i get 12.5mpg

now i have a 2008 tundra 4x4 and i am getting almost the same fuel mileage (i lost .2 mpg cuz of the 4wd)

with that being said, i love my toyotas but i think it is time to move to a diesel .. i think the best choice is the 7.3L ford

i will miss the tundra if i actually sell it though