Concealed weapons on college grounds

[adn3000]

Thirty two dead and twenty one injured by one lone shooter... another good reason to allow more consealed permits to carry. If one prof. or student had been armed this all could be a different head line.

My thoughts go out to the families and fellow students who survived this horrible ordeal. This also happend in Iowa City, only the numbers were not as high. TJ

You honestly believe that armed students and professors in classrooms would be a good idea?

[bamachem]

You honestly believe that armed students and professors in classrooms would be a good idea?


ABSOLUTELY. schools, universities, etc are easy targets. why? because the shooters KNOW, without any doubt, that there isn't as single armed person around.

my prayers go out to the families and friends of those who fell victim to this murdering lunatic.

[mastacox]

... another good reason to allow more consealed permits to carry. If one prof. or student had been armed this all could be a different head line...

I have to admit that I thought the exact same thing. It's disgusting that gun control advocates think a "gun free zone" law will keep some sick freak from using one to execute more than 30 innocent lives.

I wonder, if one student had a concealed gun and killed the psycho, would they be prosecuted by the University or hailed as a hero?

[CJM]

Sad thing is Virginia allows CCW on campus, VT doesnt. 1 person with a CCW could have ended it all.

If everyone carried a gun stuff like this WOULD NOT happen..

[oly884]

another good reason to allow more consealed permits to carry. If one prof. or student had been armed this all could be a different head line.


While a good portion of me agrees with this, I'm hesitant to say that I fully do so. While I think the ability for people to carry concealed weapons would deter the crime, it is up in the air whether it would reduce the number hurt or killed each time. A "one target" hit could result in an all out gun fight where many are injured and so on. That being said, mass murders like this could be stopped before more are hurt or killed.

Now, I DO NOT think that allowing people to carry weapons on campus will let more crimes happen. The fact of the matter is that if some one is going to be as much of a coward as this kid was, the legality of carrying a weapon on campus does not have the slightest impact on their decision. The people who will carry weapons on campus would, 99% of the time, be the responsible ones, the people who have taken the classes, and understand what to do in a bad situation.

At this point, I'm going to stop talking about this in this thread, if anyone is interested in having a discussion about this, contact me via PM or start a thread over in the politics and religion forum where a good debate can take place.

My heart goes out to those who lost their lives, being an engineering student that is almost done with school, I can't imagine what friends and families are going through. So many young people with their lives ahead of them, brilliant, smart people all gone now.

This pathetic human being who committed this horrid crime is the epitome of a coward.

[localmotion]

Good point Oly, if you want to debate whether CCW should be allowed on campus, take it somewhere else.

This is a vigil, if you will, for the students, faculty and family of VT.

[adn3000]

You honestly believe that armed students and professors in classrooms would be a good idea?


ABSOLUTELY. schools, universities, etc are easy targets. why? because the shooters KNOW, without any doubt, that there isn't as single armed person around.

my prayers go out to the families and friends of those who fell victim to this murdering lunatic.


What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!

[oly884]

What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!


Your statement can be viewed just as ignorant. You think that only irrational individuals are the ones who carry weapons? If learning environments become dangerous, then I would feel safer if we were allowed to carry weapons.

By what you're saying, NOT carrying weapons to a place where shootings can still occur is rational?

Please explain to me how allowing concealed weapons with proper training is worse than not allowing any weapons on campus.

Also, please don't use the excuse that if guns are outlawed on campuses, shootings would not occur, this recent event proves that assumption to be wrong.

Your "wake up" implies that you seem to know better than the person you quoted. So, please, enlighten me. I need to be, "woken up."

[adn3000]

What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!




Your statement can be viewed just as ignorant. You think that only irrational individuals are the ones who carry weapons? If learning environments become dangerous, then I would feel safer if we were allowed to carry weapons.

By what you're saying, NOT carrying weapons to a place where shootings can still occur is rational?

Please explain to me how allowing concealed weapons with proper training is worse than not allowing any weapons on campus.

Also, please don't use the excuse that if guns are outlawed on campuses, shootings would not occur, this recent event proves that assumption to be wrong.

Your "wake up" implies that you seem to know better than the person you quoted. So, please, enlighten me. I need to be, "woken up."


I'm not saying that if guns were not allowed on college campuses a shooting could not occur. I am simply stating that I believe that guns have no place on a college campus, legally or illegally. I would say that a police officer would be the only exception. It seems that everyone believes that we can solve the problem of violence with more violence. I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant. If you can't figure that out then I can't help you wake up. I apologize if this seems off topic, I too feel for the victims and their families. No more from me.

[oly884]

What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!




Your statement can be viewed just as ignorant. You think that only irrational individuals are the ones who carry weapons? If learning environments become dangerous, then I would feel safer if we were allowed to carry weapons.

By what you're saying, NOT carrying weapons to a place where shootings can still occur is rational?

Please explain to me how allowing concealed weapons with proper training is worse than not allowing any weapons on campus.

Also, please don't use the excuse that if guns are outlawed on campuses, shootings would not occur, this recent event proves that assumption to be wrong.

Your "wake up" implies that you seem to know better than the person you quoted. So, please, enlighten me. I need to be, "woken up."


I'm not saying that if guns were not allowed on college campuses a shooting could not occur. I am simply stating that I believe that guns have no place on a college campus, legally or illegally. I would say that a police officer would be the only exception. It seems that everyone believes that we can solve the problem of violence with more violence. I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant. If you can't figure that out then I can't help you wake up. I apologize if this seems off topic, I too feel for the victims and their families. No more from me.


Clearly not every one believes that violence can be solved with more violence. However, there will always be cases where the only way to stop violence is to perform a violent act, it's just that simple. "Talking" works, but in the case of irrational people, it does not. Do you honestly think that Hitler would have stopped killing all the Jews if people had just talked to him?

So, you believe that some people's first reaction to counter one violent attack is to counter with another violent attack is ignorant? Do you realize that saying this is viewed as ignorant by many people?

May I then ask what should be done when a 23 year old kid opens fire on classrooms full of innocent people who have no means of defending themselves?

[localmotion]

I think what he is trying to say Oly, is that letting college students carry guns on campuses will increase the murder rate. There are a lot of people who I do not think should be able to carry a gun, but still are eligible. I would be scared out of my mind if a guy in my class carried. Yes, I trust myself with a gun, but its the guy next to me I don't trust.

There is no way this could have been prevented at all....unless someone has the ability to predict the future?..anyone anyone?

Personally flags should have been raised about the kids severe depression and crazy literature. Students should have told faculty that this guy was nuts and that he was skipping out on his meds. That is the only true defense against this.

I do not thing guns in a learning environment is a good idea....unless you are a LEO.

We all have different opinions and that is what makes America...America! Lets not make any kind of personal attacks and just debate the subject. No hard feelings!

[oly884]

Well, then we need some more LEO's on campuses.

I'm not saying that we should let any one on campus carry a weapon.

Another thing, do you really believe that allowing people who have earned their CCW to carry on campuses would INCREASE the murder rate? I'm sure there's some chance, how big? I don't know, but I will say that it wouldn't be near as big as people think.

The common misconception is that allowing people to carry guns (if they are certified) will increase murders. Do you really think that some one who has the intent to MURDER someone will not go through with it simply because guns are not allowed in the area?

[jimbo74]

if everyone carried a gun there would be a lot more murders... lets say its legal to have a gun @ a college.... how many frat fights are there? how many kids do you wnat to see dead? ok so joe starts banging jakes girlfriend.... jake gets word, now both of them are dead..... this kind of stuff happens all over the place in a college.....

[localmotion]

Well if someone is going to murder, than they will find a reason. But say there is a fight on campus, and both have a gun. What happens there?

I think the more people have access to a gun immediately, the more stupid people will make stupid decisions. Rage is uncontrollable and makes people do things they normally would not do. Unfortunately, a CCW is pretty easily obtainable, and you are right, if someone wants to shoot someone else, they will find a means to do so.

I am curious to see how the dissection of the response occurs and who will be the person to blame. Sadly, someone always has to be blamed....freakin media.

Who chooses who gets to carry on campus?

[oly884]

Jim, you're 100% right, in fact, if people had guns, they'd just shoot every one!

Hey, what about house parties, in areas where guns ARE allowed? Every time there is a fight, people pull guns out and every dies, yup, you're right jim. :roll:

Jim, from the sounds of it, you probably haven't been around guns a lot, but I may be wrong. Your argument falls apart the second you walk off of any campus and walk out into the real world where, yes, people ARE allowed to carry guns and attend parties, get into fights and so on. However, maybe I'm just blind and miss hearing about the shootings that take place at parties all the time. Oh, and outside of college, every one who cheats on their significant other gets killed because that other person has a gun.

You are making assumptions about guns and concealed carry, but unless you have taken any CCW classes, hunter's safety, and other classes as such, please think before you post.

Matt, you are right, people make stupid decisions all the time. However, maybe the concern about this stems from knowing the small training needed to obtain a CCW (I know Matt feels this way, and I agree with him). So, if a person wants to carry a weapon, put them through several classes, charge them for the classes, and make damn well sure they know when and how to use a gun in a bad situation.



Who chooses who gets to carry on campus?


Great point Matt. As to what I said above, I would feel much more safe anywhere guns are allowed to be carried if the training needed to obtain a CCW what much more difficult.

[adn3000]

What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!




Your statement can be viewed just as ignorant. You think that only irrational individuals are the ones who carry weapons? If learning environments become dangerous, then I would feel safer if we were allowed to carry weapons.

By what you're saying, NOT carrying weapons to a place where shootings can still occur is rational?

Please explain to me how allowing concealed weapons with proper training is worse than not allowing any weapons on campus.

Also, please don't use the excuse that if guns are outlawed on campuses, shootings would not occur, this recent event proves that assumption to be wrong.

Your "wake up" implies that you seem to know better than the person you quoted. So, please, enlighten me. I need to be, "woken up."


I'm not saying that if guns were not allowed on college campuses a shooting could not occur. I am simply stating that I believe that guns have no place on a college campus, legally or illegally. I would say that a police officer would be the only exception. It seems that everyone believes that we can solve the problem of violence with more violence. I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant. If you can't figure that out then I can't help you wake up. I apologize if this seems off topic, I too feel for the victims and their families. No more from me.


Clearly not every one believes that violence can be solved with more violence. However, there will always be cases where the only way to stop violence is to perform a violent act, it's just that simple. "Talking" works, but in the case of irrational people, it does not. Do you honestly think that Hitler would have stopped killing all the Jews if people had just talked to him?

So, you believe that some people's first reaction to counter one violent attack is to counter with another violent attack is ignorant? Do you realize that saying this is viewed as ignorant by many people?

May I then ask what should be done when a 23 year old kid opens fire on classrooms full of innocent people who have no means of defending themselves?


Simply put, I do not want to be in class with students carrying concealed weapons. As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations. I know that there will always be people out there that have problems and commit murders. That is something that our society will always deal with. I realize that many people may not agree with me and if that makes me ignorant, so be it. And the Hitler thing, come on man.

[CJM]

100% I believe in it, if everyone was armed then who would dare try anything if they knew they could die right then and there by 10 people in a matter of seconds?

[oly884]

Simply put, I do not want to be in class with students carrying concealed weapons. As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations. I know that there will always be people out there that have problems and commit murders. That is something that our society will always deal with. I realize that many people may not agree with me and if that makes me ignorant, so be it. And the Hitler thing, come on man.


I'm not going to disagree that there are PLENTY of people that I don't want to be sitting next to who are carrying. And I do realize that there are cases where more people will be hurt as opposed to walk away free from injury.

I fully agree that we need to instill better morals in our future generations, but lets be honest with each other, do you see this happening? This doesn't mean that I'm not going to do my part and instill good morals in my future children.

I don't mean to call you ignorant, I realize that you have different beliefs, I just hope you realize that people other than you have differing views on the matter.

The hitler comment was directed at what you said,


I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant

I said it to simply put what you are saying in context. Clearly hitler would have not stopped and it took violence to accomplish this. I'm not saying that every situation needs to be dealt with equally and oppositely, however, there are cases where it simply is needed.

[Robinhood4x4]

As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations.


Sounds pretty idealistic to me and in the mean time, I will be getting my CCW and carrying whenever I can.

When was the last time somebody tried to walk into a police dept and shoot everybody up? They wouldn't get very far. Yes, I am a firm believer that if just a couple people were carrying then 30+ people wouldn't be dead now.


At least two school shooting incidents have been stopped by citizens with firearms. Didn't hear about these in the media, huh.

· January 9, 2002, Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Va. - 43 year old Peter Odighizuwa, who had flunked out of the small law school earlier in the week killed three people and wounded three others. Two law students - Tracy Bridges and Ted Besen - retrieved a handgun from Bridges' vehicle and held Odighizuwa at gun point for several minutes before police arrived. (Bridges was a reserve deputy sheriff, but was not on duty at the time of the incident.)

· October 1, 1997, Pearl High School, Pearl, Ms. - 16 year old Luke Woodham carried a rifle onto the school campus, killed his ex-girlfriend and one of her friends and wounded seven other people. Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his truck and held Woodham for police. It was later learned that the teenager had beaten and stabbed his own mother to death before the attack at the school.

[oly884]

100% I believe in it, if everyone was armed then who would dare try anything if they knew they could die right then and there by 10 people in a matter of seconds?


Well, a person who would do it would be some one with a death wish, allowing concealed weapons or not on a campus, I doubt, would have made this kid not follow through with his plan. The only difference in outcome would be fewer deaths. However, I feel the concern that is felt by some members here is that you would get the "trigger" happy people who would start firing and injure more than just the shooter. This is a valid concern, and I respect it. However, given better and more rigorous training, I think that collateral damage could be minimized.

[adn3000]

Simply put, I do not want to be in class with students carrying concealed weapons. As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations. I know that there will always be people out there that have problems and commit murders. That is something that our society will always deal with. I realize that many people may not agree with me and if that makes me ignorant, so be it. And the Hitler thing, come on man.


I'm not going to disagree that there are PLENTY of people that I don't want to be sitting next to who are carrying. And I do realize that there are cases where more people will be hurt as opposed to walk away free from injury.

I fully agree that we need to instill better morals in our future generations, but lets be honest with each other, do you see this happening? This doesn't mean that I'm not going to do my part and instill good morals in my future children.

I don't mean to call you ignorant, I realize that you have different beliefs, I just hope you realize that people other than you have differing views on the matter.

The hitler comment was directed at what you said,


I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant

I said it to simply put what you are saying in context. Clearly hitler would have not stopped and it took violence to accomplish this. I'm not saying that every situation needs to be dealt with equally and oppositely, however, there are cases where it simply is needed.


Fair enough. I usually log on to these sites to gain knowledge about my Runner, but when I saw the thread related to the VT thing I couldn't help myself. I'll know better for next time to keep it about Toyotas. I do respect your opinions and even agree with you in some cases, no disrespect intended.

[oly884]

No disrespect meant either.

[adn3000]

As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations.


Sounds pretty idealistic to me and in the mean time, I will be getting my CCW and carrying whenever I can.


Good for you.

[ElkaholicTRD]

I have to agree with Oly here, I believe that those who are qualified, trained, and go through the process of getting concealed weapons permit and would carry on campus would help prevent so many deaths.

[Robinhood4x4]

I usually log on to these sites to gain knowledge about my Runner, but when I saw the thread related to the VT thing I couldn't help myself. I'll know better for next time to keep it about Toyotas.


Why? That's what this forum is for, to express each of our political views no matter which side we're on. Yes, there are more pro-gun people on this site than anti-gun, but we pride ourselves in keeping these debates mature and without personal attacks.

Remember, the object of a debate is not to change the mind of your opponent, but to change the mind of the audience. And above all, have fun at doing it.

[Cheese]

One person, appropriately motivated and equipped ALWAYS can make a difference.

This is sad, evil is in the world and I am not sure how arming anyone else would have saved all the lives.

The argument that if everyone was armed, everyone would behave is a little rough. Who said an armed society is a polite society?

I would like to carry because if I have a problem, I want to solve it.

[bamachem]

i carry from time to time, and pretty much always have a CCW weapon either in the car or on my person.

now here's an interesting twist...

News article from January, 2006:

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."


at least if this would have passed, maybe, just maybe ONE of the professors in the engineering building may have been able to get to the perp before he was able to kill so many...

why does the thought of trained, legally armed citizens scare the general public so much? the perp legally bought a gun because he had a clear criminal and mental health record, but he was not authorized to carry it either in the open or concealed since he did not have a permit. why would allowing permit-carrying students and staff create a dangerous environment?

[localmotion]

David

from my understanding, it is Illegal to carry guns anywhere where alcohol is served. So if you are at a party, and there is alcohol, you are breaking the law.

You are right, people who do not know how to handle guns are afraid of them. A lot like driving, people who dont know how to drive, are afraid of the highway.

I think the CCW training needs to be a longer process, but then again, so does having a baby. In my world, you should have to apply to have a baby...but thats another subject...LOL

[ChickenLover]

from my understanding, it is Illegal to carry guns anywhere where alcohol is served.



I don't know where you got that info. But it is definitely inaccurate as far as my state's laws are concerned. When alcohol is involved, The only time I can't carry, is when I (myself) am under the influence (in public). As long as I am sober, I can carry in any bar.

[oly884]

David

from my understanding, it is Illegal to carry guns anywhere where alcohol is served. So if you are at a party, and there is alcohol, you are breaking the law.

You are right, people who do not know how to handle guns are afraid of them. A lot like driving, people who dont know how to drive, are afraid of the highway.

I think the CCW training needs to be a longer process, but then again, so does having a baby. In my world, you should have to apply to have a baby...but thats another subject...LOL


I know that in MT it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon into bars, as for parties, I'm not sure. I do know that it varies from state to state.

I do agree about having kids, haha, people need licenses to drive, why not for having a kid?

[adn3000]

I usually log on to these sites to gain knowledge about my Runner, but when I saw the thread related to the VT thing I couldn't help myself. I'll know better for next time to keep it about Toyotas.


Why? That's what this forum is for, to express each of our political views no matter which side we're on. Yes, there are more pro-gun people on this site than anti-gun, but we pride ourselves in keeping these debates mature and without personal attacks.

Remember, the object of a debate is not to change the mind of your opponent, but to change the mind of the audience. And above all, have fun at doing it.


I am definitely not anti-gun. I own guns and enjoy hunting, trap shooting, and the likes. I just do not think that it is a good idea for students or professors to conceal guns on a college campus. I would not feel safer if the student to my left or right were carrying a gun. I pay my hard earned money to go to school and get a quality education, not to worry about which jerk I shouldn't piss off because he/she may have a gun. I know there will always be assholes that have violent motives at school, but this can happen anywhere.

[Robinhood4x4]

Thanks for clarifying, but why do you feel, "I'll know better for next time to keep it about Toyotas."

That's the point I was getting at.

[Texas Jim]

To say that if someone armed would just cause more people to be killed is silly. The folks who break laws are always going to do so, at any case, However why should someone I love or my self become victims to them?

We know that there are less lethal ways to deal with violence but when that fails why shouldn't I be able to defend myself? You are still going to go for the ride. You will be arrested and possibly charged and it will cost plenty. It isn't something I feel like I really want to do but, by no means do I want to die before my time at some scumbags idea of getting money for more drugs, or what ever!

Right now the technology doesn't allow you to set your phasers on stun, maybe in the future and that would be great! Heck, there are plenty of people I would walk around and just "stun," because I can.

To check on CCW laws in your state you need to go to www.packing.org they may be able to clarify some of different laws and requirements for your state. TJ

[fustercluck]

Tell me please, why do these rampage/mass murderers not seize police precincts and military bases as targets for their rage?

[Texas Jim]

Tell me please, why do these rampage/mass murderers not seize police precincts and military bases as targets for their rage?


Because these cooks now that those places are secure and there are many armed people there to deal with them!

With what college cost and rising year after year. I feel that the time has come for and armed guard at each building on campus 24/7 when school is in session. when school is out of session then these buildings need to be secured and locked!!! TJ

[Bob98SR5]

Tell me please, why do these rampage/mass murderers not seize police precincts and military bases as targets for their rage?


Because these cooks now that those places are secure and there are many armed people there to deal with them!

With what college cost and rising year after year. I feel that the time has come for and armed guard at each building on campus 24/7 when school is in session. when school is out of session then these buildings need to be secured and locked!!! TJ



jim,

that was a rhetorical question, my friend ;)

on another note, i dont mind teachers being armed (if they choose to do so) and plain clothed officers to patrol schools. i guess this is just a different world now with people who are willing to kill themselves but take many more down in the process.

as fuster tried to point out w/ the rhetorical question, no criminal is stupid enough to take down a place where he/she knows that there are armed people ready to take them out too.

bob




bob

[bamachem]

at least this lady gets the idea behind why concealed carry is a GOOD idea:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267540,00.html

82-Year-Old Ex-Beauty Queen Stops Intruder by Shooting Out Tires

Saturday, April 21, 2007


WAYNESBURG, Ky. — Miss America 1944 has a talent that likely has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 that made missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.

[bamachem]

Ted Nugent is spot-on in my opinion:

Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster

WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

[fustercluck]

Are events wherein armed and responsible citizens using weapons to force criminal behavior to an end not news worthy? Why are these reports not present in the national news cycle?

[bamachem]

because that wouldn't further the agenda of the liberal media to disarm the American public. duhhhh! ;)