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View Full Version : Help me identify this problem please!


MillerPKA
02-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Rather than resurrect several dead threads I wanted to consolidate these separate issues into one thread. This is the part of the trail that started it all

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/wtfniga/MJA_6969-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/wtfniga/MJA_6970.jpg

Now it stalled coming out, jump started the starter and was able to get towed the last couple inches to gain traction. Was able to drive it back home the 50 miles with the check engine light on but would stall at idle and run really groggy. It was throwing 4 generic cel's but decided I'd get them rechecked after the next day's maintenance.

Yesterday I took the intake and airbox out, cleaned both, cleaned the MAF, cleaned the throttle body, new air filter...confirmed no water made it past the intake, a rotten seal on the air tube allowed enough water to get in the airbox to trash my air filter.

While I was at it I gave a really generous...maybe overly generous...scrub down of simple green, with the intake and airbox out I admit i was probably lackadaisical in my spraying of chemical and water, may have shot it in the wrong places but did tape off the throttle opening as well as open hoses from everything being dismantled. Started it up and voila no more stalling. But idle went really high and there is a very loud whining noise, seems to be coming from the driver side of the engine towards the front.

Maybe whine isn't the best word but its obnoxiously loud like its never been. Anyways, double checked hoses, the ones going into the intake are getting old and the tips don't look like they provide a good seal. The pcv hose tip is also deteriorating and with the truck on I took it off the valve where I saw the inside was really black. However, pulling off and putting on the hose made its own noises, but it was unrelated to the noise thats still persisting.

Anyways, assembled everything again, fired it up like I said started a lot better but CEL came on. Went to AutoZone and found P0172 (System too rich , bank 1) and P0107 (MAF/VAF). Had her clear the codes assuming if the problem was legitimate the same CEL's would surface. Drove it last night and this morning with the same annoyances but no check engine. Its at the muffler shop getting a new one beause the Vortex cracked big time (don't know if it was before or after the dive) but am trying to diagnose this. I am considering replacing the o2 sensor and if its not too expensive just getting a new pcv valve (price anyone?).

Sorry for the long post, have a long time to think about this all while I'm waiting for the truck.

Read the mass of other threads I can say the idle is buggy but I haven't noticed a power loss really, just not running as smoothly as I'd like. Trying to cover the basics for anyone willing to jump in on this one

EDIT:

Got the truck back with the Magnaflow muffler. The throttle feels a lot better and it seems like this noise is the only problem now....no CEL yet. I got a video of the noise you should be able to hear it, maybe I can just hear it better because I know what I'm listening for, but let me know what you think? It was whining towards the end of the trip too?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/wtfniga/th_P2150426.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v396/wtfniga/?action=view&current=P2150426.flv)

My first guess is going to be alternator, maybe the bearing
mastacox
02-15-2010, 10:19 AM
It might be the alternator has gone bad from getting a bunch of muddy water in it. I would also drain your engine oil to make sure there's no water in it.
YotaFun
02-15-2010, 10:45 AM
I know that whine and this is how I know:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Nighthief/4Runner/Engine%20Belt%20Issue/th_MOV02712.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Nighthief/4Runner/Engine%20Belt%20Issue/?action=view&current=MOV02712.flv)

Mine was a mixture of all accessories from doing a similar thing you did.
New A/c idler pulley and alternator later, then the issue was gone :-)
MillerPKA
02-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Very nice thanks. I just went and used a stethoscope and man that thing is really roaring. It stinks because the guy at AutoZone said its "charging the hell out of my battery" haha, I hate that noise though so I guess a bearing is enough reason to purchase. I guess I'll post up in a couple hours
YotaFun
02-15-2010, 11:51 AM
I went and got a used one from a guy on TTora, it was one out of a 99 I think that has an 80 AMP output as appose the the 70 AMP that the older runners put out.

Not a huge improvement but its better then what we have stock
MillerPKA
02-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Nice well I dropped the money for an AutoZone one, voila! Thanks for the input guys. Does sound like I have a little supercharger sound now that whines with the rpms, sounds like a bearing maybe I'm just being over analytical because its so quiet now haha
BruceTS
02-15-2010, 06:57 PM
haha, was about to say that is the alt making that noise. You can tear it down and rebuild it... I did that to one of mine and used marine grease when I repacked the bearings.....
YotaFun
02-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Nice well I dropped the money for an AutoZone one, voila! Thanks for the input guys. Does sound like I have a little supercharger sound now that whines with the rpms, sounds like a bearing maybe I'm just being over analytical because its so quiet now haha


if it still has that whine, remove the a/c belt and start it up and see if it goes away, might be that idler pulley at the bottom of the engine.

I have actually replaced mine 3 times, 3rd time doing what Bruce did and practically soaked the thing in marine grease, I have gone through plenty since and no issues
MillerPKA
02-15-2010, 07:51 PM
If it was the a/c pulley wouldn't it only come on when the a/c is on? I've tried switching mid drive it has no effect, it sounds like it goes with the rpms, only while pressing on the gas, sounds like I have engine mods but it can't be anything good
Seanz0rz
02-15-2010, 08:03 PM
the ac belt moves at all times the engine moves, so if its bearing, or the ac idler's bearing is bad, it will squeak. the compressor has a magnetic clutch that engages when you press the "A/C" button, causing the compressor to lock to the pulley and then spin.
YotaFun
02-15-2010, 08:12 PM
the ac belt moves at all times the engine moves, so if its bearing, or the ac idler's bearing is bad, it will squeak. the compressor has a magnetic clutch that engages when you press the "A/C" button, causing the compressor to lock to the pulley and then spin.


What he said.
CJM
02-15-2010, 08:20 PM
I remember Avy and I trying to diagnose this, he wound up replacing everything in the end cause it was a feel good thing and it turned out to be the right thing to do.

I second the marine grease, nothing special just off the shelf stuff should work. My truck makes the same whine but not as loud.
MillerPKA
02-16-2010, 04:29 AM
Any link or supplement would be good as I've never messed with the a/c or its components. I bought my 4runner in summer of 06 with no a/c in south Georgia heat. After riding out the whole summer with the hopeless notion that the back window would somewhow cure my lack of air conditioning I found one from another 4runner and got it swapped in...definitely have not looked back since
MTL_4runner
02-16-2010, 07:03 PM
haha, was about to say that is the alt making that noise. You can tear it down and rebuild it... I did that to one of mine and used marine grease when I repacked the bearings.....


X2

They are quite easy to rebuild and most auto-electric shops will stock the parts for a complete rebuild.
MTL_4runner
02-16-2010, 07:07 PM
Any link or supplement would be good as I've never messed with the a/c or its components. I bought my 4runner in summer of 06 with no a/c in south Georgia heat. After riding out the whole summer with the hopeless notion that the back window would somewhow cure my lack of air conditioning I found one from another 4runner and got it swapped in...definitely have not looked back since :bigok:


Just undo the idler pulley and take the AC belt off. Very simple to do by loosening the pulley front nut and tunring the adjuster counter-clockwise. Also a good idea to use that stethoscope to pinpoint any noises.
YotaFun
02-16-2010, 07:09 PM
Just undo the idler pulley and take the AC belt off. Very simple to do by loosening the pulley front nut and tunring the adjuster counter-clockwise. Also a good idea to use that stethoscope to pinpoint any noises.


I can't remember but don't you have to take off the power steering belt to to access the ac belt?
mastacox
02-16-2010, 07:48 PM
I can't remember but don't you have to take off the power steering belt to to access the ac belt?


No, the A/C belt is the outermost, and doesn't go around the fan.
MillerPKA
02-17-2010, 05:03 AM
I can't remember but don't you have to take off the power steering belt to to access the ac belt?


No, the A/C belt is the outermost, and doesn't go around the fan.


Thanks guys. The nut was on there like a you know what so I had to put it on hold because I had to gut my interior as well as install projectors. I wanted to go to my local shop and have them loosen it for me with an air gun and I'd drive it back here to do myself but this new girl said it could cost 12 bucks....yeah, I'll give it another stab today. Couldn't find any bearings in town so I coughed up $27 and got a new one, the one on there now is looking raunchy
SD4runner
02-17-2010, 08:18 AM
Crap. Did I miss where you said you got rid of the CEL's?

Sounds like the exact problem I am having with my new '94 FJ80. The PO said the CEL came on and the engine started sputtering after going through a large water hole. It went off after he cleaned the MAF and TB. He was getting the "too rich" code.

Now the CEL came back on. Need to find someone with an OBD reader, as I only have a OBD2 :D
MillerPKA
02-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Yeah the cel's are gone, I cleared them through Advance but in my experience if the code wasn't in error then it should pop back on, been driving it for a couple days and runs fine besides the pulley which I have yet to put on. Have you checked the wires? MAFs can be damaged beyond repair where a cleaning wouldn't help.
MillerPKA
02-18-2010, 02:13 PM
alright i put the new pulley on and the noise is still there. I can't get my head down far enough to listen closer but I can't figure this out! I got CRC belt conditioner and hit all the belts, no change. Its weird though, when I had the a/c pulley off I lightly rotated the pulley above it that had the now-slack belt around it and when it was coming in slight contact with the belt while rotating it made a familiar noise...sounds like if the rotations increased so would the sound and that would be the culprit, but reinstalled everything correctly and conditioned to no luck. I believe its coming from the left side of the engine now...should I be looking at the water pump?

Another note, its by far most audible when I'm slightly on the gas. I had my girlfriend hold it down slightly while my head was above the engine and man its loud, just wish I could pinpoint it!!!!! Its driving me absolutely nuts now
MTL_4runner
02-18-2010, 07:02 PM
You might try taking off the timing belt cover and check the tensioner & idler bearings for noise with the stethoscope too.

For those without a stethoscope, a long screwdriver cupped to your ear works well too.
MillerPKA
02-19-2010, 01:37 PM
No way getting around draining the radiator to get the cover off? Sounds like its a possibility it may be behind there, that or it may be one of the other pulleys in the front not connected with the a/c belt
BruceTS
02-22-2010, 09:43 AM
Remove all the belts and start it up, to see if the noise is still there. Easier to do process of elimination.....
MillerPKA
02-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the advice man. Any place that shows where all of the tensioners are? Obviously can't do anything behind the cover right now, can't seem to find the other ones, saw one above the a/c pulley I'm still wondering how I'd even get a wrench back there
Seanz0rz
02-22-2010, 11:55 AM
take the skidplate off and work from underneath for the ac. the alt you should be able to get from the drivers side, the ps from the passenger side, but you will likely have to go under to get the belts lined up on the pulleys