3rd gen tailgate woes

[4x4mike]

I'm having some tailgate/rear hatch issues and thought I'd ask before I go taking things apart. The most noticeable issue is that when you open the hatch the rear dome light won't turn on. If you glance up to the instrument gauge cluster the door ajar light is not on. Even though the door is open the vehicle doesn't acknowledge this. As such if I use the key fob to unlock all the doors and only open the rear hatch the doors will all automatically lock because it thinks none of the doors were opened. Opposite of this problem is that on Monday the door closed and locked with the key fob but the rear dome light did not go off and stayed on for 10 hours.

The latch and striker plate are in great looking condition and clean. When the door is closed and locked it's actually closed and locked.

One other problem I have with that door is the rear defroster, it doesn't work. The switch lights when pushed and the rear view mirror heaters turn on. I'm not sure if the defroster/dome light issue are related but thought I'd throw it out there.

Off the top of anyones head, is there anything I should check?

[YotaFun]

Sounds like a connector issue or wire issue.
Have you checked to see if your tag lights are working too?
How about the rear wiper or the power window operation?

Could be worn wires from opening and client the door or could be just loose connector for the locking system.

[4x4mike]

The rear wiper works as does the rear window. Both tag lights are good as well.

[MTL_4runner]

I believe the lights are all negative switched so that sounds like somewhere the light wire is grounding out and may be in combination with a bad trunk light switch (also negative switched). Hard to say exactly without looking at the vehicle myself but that's where I'd start. Try and trace the wire from the switch first and see if you find anything.

[4x4mike]

I took apart as much of the hatch as I could tonight and couldn't find anything. I also searched my FSM but it's for a Tacoma so it has no section on a hatch or rear defroster.

When the rear hatch is opened the light on the dash signifying an open door does not light. My rear dome light works if you put switch it to ON but only then. I'm thinking it's the door switch but I couldn't find anything I could see was a door switch. Most of the wires in the door go in and out of the ECM back there.

Does anyone know what the door switch looks like? I pulled the latch mechanism but it's only cables that go to the lever and a cable that looks to move the cam to lock the door.

I have the wiring diagram so I'll look for that but it doesn't tell me what I'm looking for or where it is. There are a lot of wires back there and feel as if it's a needle in a haystack situation. I'd rather not take the entire door apart because I don't want to deal with the window or the track.

Does anyone have the section of the FSM that deals with the rear hatch? Does it say anything more than "Check wires" "Check fuse" Check relay"?

Thanks.

[Seanz0rz]

mike, PM me your email addy and ill try to get some pics to you.

[4x4mike]

mike, PM me your email addy and ill try to get some pics to you.


Will do.

[Chaplain]

Mike,
If you ever figure out the problem DO POST UP the solution. My window stopped working this past summer as did the wiper and I've noticed the defrost doesn't work anymore either. Then the other day my newish battery was dead. After some investigating I found that my license plate lights turn ON when I turn the truck off every now and then. Weird? I couldn't figure that one out so I removed the bulbs so I didn't run the battery down again.
Obviously the hatches takes a lot of shock/abuse from bumps and shutting it, but this is killing me. I've gone as far as replacing the whole window assembly but still no solution. The computer box looking thing makes a clicking noise when I hit the window switch so I know signal is getting back there. I've also replace that box. Sometimes the defrost button lights up when I turn the truck off too???.
Anyway, I'm at a loss on this. PLEASE HELP anyone.

[4x4mike]

I looked through wiring diagrams last night and I believe I need to locate the door switch for the rear hatch. I'm not sure if it's broken, loose wires or something else but that's what tells the vehicle that the door is open. Once the door is open the dome and dash light should turn on. Looks like I'll have to remove the black metal panel that protects the glass to access this.

The defroster is a different problem but it's controls and wiring is supposed to be near the door switch so it looks like I'll have to make a day of it. The working space is small but I'll try to get pictures and post up what I find.

I have no idea why your tag lights stay on. That problem sounds independent from the door switch problem and defroster problem I'm having. The wiring for the tag lights are back there as well and maybe you've got a ground issue. I assume, since you removed the bulbs and fixed the problem, that it's only the tag lights that stay on? The dash lights and marker lights turn off?

[paddlenbike]

My window stopped working this past summer as did the wiper and I've noticed the defrost doesn't work anymore either.


The entire rear window, wiper, washer and defroster are on a fairly complicated interlock circuit. The rear wiper, washer and defroster will not work if the rear window is down at all (or the limit switch *thinks* the rear window is not fully closed). Obviously the wiper would tear itself right off the back of the truck if it were allowed to turn on while the window was partially open. I would start by checking the rear window limit switch. I know where it's located on a 2nd gen but not a third. I think your tag light is a separate issue.

[Chaplain]

My window stopped working this past summer as did the wiper and I've noticed the defrost doesn't work anymore either.

The entire rear window, wiper, washer and defroster are on a fairly complicated interlock circuit. The rear wiper, washer and defroster will not work if the rear window is down at all (or the limit switch *thinks* the rear window is not fully closed). Obviously the wiper would tear itself right off the back of the truck if it were allowed to turn on while the window was partially open. I would start by checking the rear window limit switch. I know where it's located on a 2nd gen but not a third. I think your tag light is a separate issue.


I agree with you about the tag light since the time frame of it not working and the other issues is months apart. My "fix" stopped the battery from draining but removing the bulbs only put off fixing the root of the problem. I'm guessing a grounding issue somewhere??? On said wiring diagram does it show where the ground is suppose to be back there??

Regarding the tailgate window/deforst/wiper not working I'm at a loss. I have bench tested the window motor and it test out fine. The box makes a click and I've replaced it too. I'm not sure how to test the rear window limit switch or where that even would be?
Thank you for your help.

[Chaplain]

Also, sometimes the dome light works when the hatch is opened, but most of the time it does not. It always works when switched to the ON position.

[4x4mike]

Many of the grounds are common throughout the vehicle and I believe the ground wire for the limit switch and courtesy light are grounded within the back door ecu. There may be a frey or disconnect somewhere causing the tag lights to ground and stay on.

As for your defroster, wiper and washer the ecu thinks the window is down or maybe defaulting that because it doesn't know where it is. The limit switch is a 2 prong switch so it's probably a simple in and out and easy to test with a DMM. The wire out of the ECM to the switch is red with a light blue stripe, the wire comes out of prong 13 (upper right). That wire goes to the switch and a black and white wire comes out of the switch. I think that when the switch is closed there is continuity through the switch and it grounds everything. Test the wire on each side of the switch in relationship to continuity and ground. The wiring diagram isn't perfect in showing location but the limit switch is right next to the back window motor. It near where the door and lock latch near the bumper and like I said the switch has the red-light blue wire going in and a black and white wiring coming out. Other than that I have no idea what it looks like.

It sounds like I have the same problem you have regarding the dome only working some of the time when turned to DOOR. This is problem I'll try to fix and take pics of although it might be until the weekend. I believe it's similar to your limit switch issue but instead of the limit switch it's the courtesy switch.

[brian2sun]

Mine does the same exact thing as yours 4x4mike, except it's never stayed on with the door closed like your did. The light just doesn't usually come on when the selector is in the "door" position on mine. I believe the sensor/trigger (whatever it's called) is located in or maybe even integrated into the door hinge. There is also wiring going through that area that I was thinking could maybe get broken since it looks like it gets bent a little when the door closes.

[4x4mike]

The factory wiring is protected pretty well so I doubt anything freyed or was pinched unless you modified the wiring or harness. When I get the time I'm pulling everything and am going to attack the switch and go from there.

[4x4mike]

Had some time today to stand out in the cold and figure out what was going on.

I'll start with the defroster. I pulled the rear hatch panel and then a smaller metal panel on the passenger side of the hatch.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj5w8dtslI/AAAAAAAAiBc/jsqHDfyxezU/s800/DSC08147.JPG

Smaller panel
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj5xd-jk1I/AAAAAAAAiBk/7-lH5uALr6w/s800/DSC08148.JPG

Once the smaller panel is off you can see the bottom of the glass and where the wire connections are. I rolled the window down half way to make it easier to work on.

Right off the bat I saw this.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj53lWdLZI/AAAAAAAAiCY/aRqqZeAw7XE/s800/DSC08155.JPG

The connections to the glass seem to be glued and this one was no longer attached to the glass.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj53lWdLZI/AAAAAAAAiCY/aRqqZeAw7XE/s800/DSC08155.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj54EW_tVI/AAAAAAAAiCg/GVKeKg3tNgo/s800/DSC08156.JPG

Here you can see that the defogger has a white and black wire to it and a black wire to it. It was the white and black that had come off.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj56vlNC0I/AAAAAAAAiDA/93NyUvVelyA/s800/DSC08161.JPG

I decided to check if everything still worked so I clamped it to the glass.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6JETNKAI/AAAAAAAAiGM/fd7swL3fuPI/s800/DSC08185.JPG]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6JETNKAI/AAAAAAAAiGM/fd7swL3fuPI/s800/DSC08185.JPG

Still worked, or so I gather. It was warming up and this is my breath on the glass. I couldn't get a temp reading on it with my IR temp gun because it was all glass but visually it was working.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6Ir9RTBI/AAAAAAAAiGE/npfu4ZItrnQ/s800/DSC08184.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6Hc4_TVI/AAAAAAAAiF4/qOMhe4dxu7E/s800/DSC08183.JPG

Since it was working, I think, I mixed up some epoxy and globbed it on. We'll see if tomorrow morning it really does work.

[MTL_4runner]

Nice find, that's definately your issue for sure. I probably would have used something conductive and waterproof like JB Weld instead of regular epoxy. My experience has shown that often regular epoxy comes apart when exposed to water (unless it's the waterproof type). Might be worth redoing before you put it all back together. Use a dremel wire wheel to prep both surfaces if you have one.

[4x4mike]

I thought of JB weld but the entire pad has definite spots for each wire. After talking with a glass shop they said use a resin and not JB weld. The JB weld would bled over to the black wire and short it out. This morning wasn't cold enough to test the window out.

[MTL_4runner]

Yes, JB weld is conductive so you'd need to be very precise about putting it on there or it would bleed current.
Just be sure the epoxy you used is waterproof or use some RTV on top of it to keep the elements at bay.

[4x4mike]

The glob from the factory covers 2 prongs from the black wire and the 2 you can see on the white-black wire. There is little room in there to keep it all together but there is some room for a dremel. The epoxy doesn't say waterproof but it's the same stuff that holds my rock lights together. Those are hanging low on the frame in the elements and have even been submerged.

[4x4mike]

Mike,
If you ever figure out the problem DO POST UP the solution. My window stopped working this past summer as did the wiper and I've noticed the defrost doesn't work anymore either. Then the other day my newish battery was dead. After some investigating I found that my license plate lights turn ON when I turn the truck off every now and then. Weird? I couldn't figure that one out so I removed the bulbs so I didn't run the battery down again.
Obviously the hatches takes a lot of shock/abuse from bumps and shutting it, but this is killing me. I've gone as far as replacing the whole window assembly but still no solution. The computer box looking thing makes a clicking noise when I hit the window switch so I know signal is getting back there. I've also replace that box. Sometimes the defrost button lights up when I turn the truck off too???.
Anyway, I'm at a loss on this. PLEASE HELP anyone.


You need to look for this connection (the one with the purple ends) and the switch (little mint green box). I'm thinking the switch needs to be replaced, it's the window limit switch. The back door ecu thinks the window is open or non existent therefore not allowing the use of the wiper, washer, etc. Of course check the switch before actually replacing it.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6BVxeoVI/AAAAAAAAiEk/CXxF7Wn4mhc/s800/DSC08173.JPG

[Crinale]

thats an interesting face your making in this pic Mike :flipoff:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6Ir9RTBI/AAAAAAAAiGE/npfu4ZItrnQ/s800/DSC08184.JPG

[4x4mike]

That's my O-face.

I was wondering if anyone would notice. I was just trying to fog things up.

[Obi..]

Hmm..with that thing just being glued on there with two leads it's amazing it didn't catch on something conductive at some point if you were to be playing with the switch and short everything out or worse. This needs to be put into a FAQ so that if you're the type to use the rear window a lot (I know I do on my '95) you should at some point inspect things and do preventative maintenance and add some additional glue to prevent this from happening.

I.O.W. Chaplain, you might have a dead short and potential fire problem going on.

[4x4mike]

The super glue might not do much if it gets caught. I'm thinking zip tying it to the adjacent wires might be better, although it one get's caught they both get caught :argue:

I was walking at lunch yesterday and came across a glass guy replacing a window in a car and picked his brain. He said that when he replaces a window like the rear 4runner glass he solders the contacts back on. I didn't think about this because from the factory it's got some kind of globbed on glue. My globbed on glue isn't working as the defroster no longer works. I think I'm going to have to get in there with a dremel, clean things up, and then try my luck with soldering it.

He asked what happened and I told him I didn't know. He thinks it got caught on something but we both agreed that would have been hard to do. There are a lot of components in the rear hatch but the window has plenty of room to travel in there. Who knows.

[paddlenbike]

termites

[Seanz0rz]

woodchucks.

i know they dont chuck wood, so maybe they chuck defroster attachment points.

[MTL_4runner]

woodchucks.

i know they dont chuck wood, so maybe they chuck defroster attachment points.



That's not what I heard...... :D

Woodchucks - GEICO Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGwusHrOtk#)

[Seanz0rz]

i was waiting for someone to post that!!!

[Chaplain]

Mike,
If you ever figure out the problem DO POST UP the solution. My window stopped working this past summer as did the wiper and I've noticed the defrost doesn't work anymore either. Then the other day my newish battery was dead. After some investigating I found that my license plate lights turn ON when I turn the truck off every now and then. Weird? I couldn't figure that one out so I removed the bulbs so I didn't run the battery down again.
Obviously the hatches takes a lot of shock/abuse from bumps and shutting it, but this is killing me. I've gone as far as replacing the whole window assembly but still no solution. The computer box looking thing makes a clicking noise when I hit the window switch so I know signal is getting back there. I've also replace that box. Sometimes the defrost button lights up when I turn the truck off too???.
Anyway, I'm at a loss on this. PLEASE HELP anyone.


You need to look for this connection (the one with the purple ends) and the switch (little mint green box). I'm thinking the switch needs to be replaced, it's the window limit switch. The back door ecu thinks the window is open or non existent therefore not allowing the use of the wiper, washer, etc. Of course check the switch before actually replacing it.

Is there a way to just bypass that switch to make the computer think everything is ok? Id actually like to bypass the computer all together if possible.

[4x4mike]

You might be able to ground the switch but I'm not for certain that would be what you want. I would just check the switch and see if it's good, unplugged ,etc. Shouldn't be an expensive fix.

[Chaplain]

After replacing everything back there I finally figured it out. Where the wiring loom goes to the tailgate (top of hatch opening) I found two broken wires. Fixed those and everything came back on line (window, wiper, defrost, plate lights and rear dome light).

If anyone needs any parts for their rear window let me know, I've acquired extra.

[4x4mike]

Glad to hear you figured it out and got it fixed. What was the cause for the broken wires? It appears as that loom is pretty stout and has some flexibility in it.

[Chaplain]

Glad to hear you figured it out and got it fixed. What was the cause for the broken wires? It appears as that loom is pretty stout and has some flexibility in it.


I believe it was from to much of this: :)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs786.ash1/167607_495781819753_714089753_5761221_3015429_n.jp g

The wires under the loom are bare without any protection and the constant movement/flex wore them against that plastic. Either way one less thing on the list to fix!

[98Roamer]

After replacing everything back there I finally figured it out. Where the wiring loom goes to the tailgate (top of hatch opening) I found two broken wires. Fixed those and everything came back on line (window, wiper, defrost, plate lights and rear dome light).

If anyone needs any parts for their rear window let me know, I've acquired extra.


I just did find the issue with my hatch. I used the key to open the window a week ago and the senor kept thinking the window was in the down position. It drained my battery and kept the wiper and window from working. I have temporarily disconnected the key sensor and everything is normal, but I can't use my key to open the window. Do you have that sensor by chance??
Thanks
Lance

[Chaplain]

Do you have that sensor by chance??
Thanks
Lance

Send me a pic of the part you need and I'll check.