Trailer: Build or Buy (M-416 style)

[oly884]

So, I'm looking to build/buy a trailer for my truck. I've been searching craigslist, etc for M-416/M-100's with not too much luck. Prices have ranged from $500 for a frame and axle to $1250 for a complete trailer. I love my camper, but after my 2 week trip to Montana, I found space to be an issue.

What I plan on doing with the trailer:

-50 lb propane tank with a long enough hose to reach my camper. This will allow for extended trips with full use of heater, stove, and a BBQ.

-20 gallon water tank with a 12v pump and faucet. I don't have any water storage or sink in the camper and I've found that while water jugs work, it's cumbersome and annoying.

-one deep cycle battery to power the pump, along with an inverter to allow for 120v power for various electronics. It'd be hooked up to the solar panel and charging system on my truck.

-space for a future small generator (1000w)

-storage for gas tanks, firewood, and other camping supplies

In all, it'd be a fairly nice, compact setup that would definitely be a great addition to my setup now.

The issue with a M-416 or M-100 would be that I'd have no use for the 'tub' as I'd most likely be creating my own storage compartments, with locking doors (minus propane), for each compartment. It'll allow for a bit more customization as well as balancing the weight of the load. Combine that with the cost of buying one, along with the limited availability, and I'm now wondering if building a trailer might not be a better idea?

Building it from the ground up will be far more work, sure, but since I know what I want the finished product to be, I can change the design to better suit my needs.

I am aware that there will be more of a headache with registration, titles, etc.

So, with all that said, what does everyone think is the best route to my goal, build or buy?

[4x4mike]

Those trailers are pretty old and from what I've seen, way over priced for rusted out shells. Most the build ups I've seen have people shelling out money for spacers/hub conversions, tires, electrical, shocks and tongue work. If the tub is not use to you I'd start new. For the price of an old one that needs work you could have someone build you a frame and you'd have your platform. Draw up what you think you need and take it to some fab shops. Get their input and an idea of price. When you build your own you can plan ahead with things like tie down points, wire routing, etc. Axles are cheap and easy to come by so you can get the length and bolt pattern you need from the get go.

I've thought about a trailer here and there for sometime. In that time I've come across a lot of cool ones that people have $1000's sunk into. Expedition Portal has a lot of build ups with half of them custom ones. I'd look around to get some ideas and the that might help you make your decision between buying and building.

[slosurfer]

If you don't need the tub, I'd be on the lookout for a rusted out one on the cheap. More than likely the frame is still perfect underneath the beat up tub. You might even get luckey and get one that has a good wire harness (mine did) and you can still find NOS wire harnesses on ebay fairly cheap.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of those ones that people extend the front and the tongue. It works really well the way it is built now, and the balance is amazing on it. If you extend the tongue and start adding a bit of weight there, the balance is all screwed up. Right now, with mine fully loaded, I can wheel it around my driveway by myself and my driveway isn't flat.

One problem that may arise with using a M416 platform is that it may be too narrow and really hard to see when backing it up with your tundra and camper.

You can also look for other military trailers. You may even want to look at the bigger trailers. They can be had pretty cheap because they are so big, but it might work really well behind your camper. Also, there are the generator trailers and the water buffalo trailers. The generator trailers are just the m416 frame with no tub (I think sean has this one, I don't remember the number). Sometimes you can find these cheaper and you don't have to deal with a tub. that's the way I'd do it. No need to look for M416 if you have no use for the tub

I bet you can find a rusted out m416 for $500 and it will have a good fram, wireing, and axle. I don't forsee anyone building a good solid rolling frame for under $500. Mine may look like shit because the tub isn't the prettiest, but for what I have in it, I know no one could build something even remotely close to it for that price. It's super solid and will take a beating (heck it's been rearended with no harm to it)

[oly884]

Those trailers are pretty old and from what I've seen, way over priced for rusted out shells. Most the build ups I've seen have people shelling out money for spacers/hub conversions, tires, electrical, shocks and tongue work. If the tub is not use to you I'd start new. For the price of an old one that needs work you could have someone build you a frame and you'd have your platform. Draw up what you think you need and take it to some fab shops. Get their input and an idea of price. When you build your own you can plan ahead with things like tie down points, wire routing, etc. Axles are cheap and easy to come by so you can get the length and bolt pattern you need from the get go.

I've thought about a trailer here and there for sometime. In that time I've come across a lot of cool ones that people have $1000's sunk into. Expedition Portal has a lot of build ups with half of them custom ones. I'd look around to get some ideas and the that might help you make your decision between buying and building.


Thanks, I've searched ExPo quite a bit, seen all various forms of trailers, etc. I've got a decent idea of what I'm after, and I have a few sketches.

My brother is about as good of a fabricator as they come, and he's got a tig, and all the extras. So he's going to help me build it whether I start with a bare 100/416 or start new.

[oly884]

If you don't need the tub, I'd be on the lookout for a rusted out one on the cheap. More than likely the frame is still perfect underneath the beat up tub. You might even get luckey and get one that has a good wire harness (mine did) and you can still find NOS wire harnesses on ebay fairly cheap.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of those ones that people extend the front and the tongue. It works really well the way it is built now, and the balance is amazing on it. If you extend the tongue and start adding a bit of weight there, the balance is all screwed up. Right now, with mine fully loaded, I can wheel it around my driveway by myself and my driveway isn't flat.

One problem that may arise with using a M416 platform is that it may be too narrow and really hard to see when backing it up with your tundra and camper.

You can also look for other military trailers. You may even want to look at the bigger trailers. They can be had pretty cheap because they are so big, but it might work really well behind your camper. Also, there are the generator trailers and the water buffalo trailers. The generator trailers are just the m416 frame with no tub (I think sean has this one, I don't remember the number). Sometimes you can find these cheaper and you don't have to deal with a tub. that's the way I'd do it. No need to look for M416 if you have no use for the tub


Thanks for the info on the generator trailer!

Balance is a big thing for me too as I want the ability to unhook it and move it around camp as necessary. Or allow for me to level the truck.

As far as backing up, I have a reverse camera mounted on my camper, so that shouldn't be an issue :)

If I can get a great deal on a frame and axle, that'd be awesome. Just have to keep my eye out. There's one in Salem, OR right now for $1250, but it's a cherry, and not in my price range.

[corax]

Thanks, I've searched ExPo quite a bit, seen all various forms of trailers, etc. I've got a decent idea of what I'm after, and I have a few sketches.

My brother is about as good of a fabricator as they come, and he's got a tig, and all the extras. So he's going to help me build it whether I start with a bare 100/416 or start new.



In case it helps at all, here's the starting point that I'm keeping in mind for a later date:
homebuilt Subaru IRS trailer (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19803)
The entire axle and suspension is held on with 4 bolts


So, it's a pretty cheap/simple way to make your own trailer that handles just about anything you can throw it it. The 2wd Suby axle has simple roller bearings that are repackable. The odd subaru bolt pattern can be overcome by converting to 6 hole chevy/toyota/nissan pattern. This is easy cause it's the same bolt circle - I plan to make it a bit more offroad this year by doing this. I will knock out 2 of the studs, bolt on a toyota rim with the two that are left to align things and mark/drill the remaining 4 holes using the rim as a pattern.
. . . I never used the brakes, but you could do surge-brakes using the subaru system
. . . The torsion spring isn't rubber, so it won't wear out from dirt/grit. It's soft enough sprung for really light loads, while able to absorb extreme punishment when heavily loaded. I'd guess I've had over 1500 pounds of logs on it at a time, in the woods, and the trailing arms are great for dragging it over downed trees and such. I wouldn't hesitate to haul this trailer on any trail that wasn't 2 feet of mud. It can take any trail that a street legal 4x4 can handle with about a thousand pounds of load on it, and then hit the highway at 80mph without missing a beat, you wouldn't know it was behind you. It's only drawback might be that the Subaru track-width is a bit narrow - there are some conditions where tracking in the ruts of the tow rig can help, but it's never been a problem for me.

[corax]

There's one in Salem, OR right now for $1250, but it's a cherry, and not in my price range.


hahaha, I was looking at that one on Craigslist yesterday - olive drag with a big white star on the side, right?.
If you see anything down in the Eugene area that you'd like someone to look at for you, let me know.

[oly884]

There's one in Salem, OR right now for $1250, but it's a cherry, and not in my price range.


hahaha, I was looking at that one on Craigslist yesterday - olive drag with a big white star on the side, right?.
If you see anything down in the Eugene area that you'd like someone to look at for you, let me know.


Will do!





Thanks, I've searched ExPo quite a bit, seen all various forms of trailers, etc. I've got a decent idea of what I'm after, and I have a few sketches.

My brother is about as good of a fabricator as they come, and he's got a tig, and all the extras. So he's going to help me build it whether I start with a bare 100/416 or start new.



In case it helps at all, here's the starting point that I'm keeping in mind for a later date:
homebuilt Subaru IRS trailer (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19803)
The entire axle and suspension is held on with 4 bolts


So, it's a pretty cheap/simple way to make your own trailer that handles just about anything you can throw it it. The 2wd Suby axle has simple roller bearings that are repackable. The odd subaru bolt pattern can be overcome by converting to 6 hole chevy/toyota/nissan pattern. This is easy cause it's the same bolt circle - I plan to make it a bit more offroad this year by doing this. I will knock out 2 of the studs, bolt on a toyota rim with the two that are left to align things and mark/drill the remaining 4 holes using the rim as a pattern.
. . . I never used the brakes, but you could do surge-brakes using the subaru system
. . . The torsion spring isn't rubber, so it won't wear out from dirt/grit. It's soft enough sprung for really light loads, while able to absorb extreme punishment when heavily loaded. I'd guess I've had over 1500 pounds of logs on it at a time, in the woods, and the trailing arms are great for dragging it over downed trees and such. I wouldn't hesitate to haul this trailer on any trail that wasn't 2 feet of mud. It can take any trail that a street legal 4x4 can handle with about a thousand pounds of load on it, and then hit the highway at 80mph without missing a beat, you wouldn't know it was behind you. It's only drawback might be that the Subaru track-width is a bit narrow - there are some conditions where tracking in the ruts of the tow rig can help, but it's never been a problem for me.




My buddy is a HUGE subaru guy, he has TONS of parts all over. You just might have solidified the build project!

Thanks for sharing!

[Erich_870]

I wanted to do the Subaru trailer project too, but I got a free boat trailer so I'm going to rebuild it into a quasi hunting/utility trailer. We have a junk car day up here where you can bring in cars for cheap and they dismantle them for scrap. I was going to put feelers out for a dead Subaru to get the suspension off, but I don't need to any more.

Erich

[04 Rocko Taco]

I have two Toyota mini truck rear axles sitting around in the garage, and have considered building me a trailer for some time as well. But then the neighbor across the road gave me a 5x8 utility dump trailer for free if I would haul it, and a bunch of downed trees out of his yard. Which I did. so I am no longer on the hook for building a trailer. :)

[Seanz0rz]

i absolutely love my m762 (3/4 ton, flat bed version of the m416)

that being said, im slowly working on plans for a new trailer. although, mine will be a bit beyond the typical m416 clone that most people try to do. it will be somewhat of a popup tent trailer type camper, just in a super small, offroad package. if/when i ever get to that, you all will be the first to know.

if i was to do the trailer thing all over again, i would build my own from scratch. i didnt have the time to build one when i needed it, so i bought one, and i am not disappointed by it. it is very difficult working around something, and much easier to figure that into your initial build.

[slosurfer]

i absolutely love my m762 (3/4 ton, flat bed version of the m416)



Yeah, that's the generator one! It's funny that it's the same suspension and everything but it's rated at 3/4 ton vs. 1/4 ton on the m416. I think the 1/4 ton rating on the m416 is because that is the weight that it was designed to hold and still float and it was originally designed for a 1/4ton jeep. :laugh: I've put about 2000 #'s in mine a few times now. :) The axles are rated pretty high on them (I think 3,000+ lbs)

Oly, I would be on the lookout for a Pioneer Tool Trailer. I think you could modify one of those fairly easy to do what you want. Cool thing is that they already are enclosed and lockable.

http://www.vintagemilitarytrucks.com/Pioneer%20Tool%20Trailer.htm

Most of those look solid and look like the wiring will be intact. All it would need is to make your own pigtail to connect to the tundra. Super easy to do!

[Crinale]

Most of those look solid and look like the wiring will be intact. All it would need is to make your own pigtail to connect to the tundra. Super easy to do!


just a note, doesnt Oly have a Taco? thats whats in his avatar..

[slosurfer]

oh yeah :laugh: for some reason I thought he had a 1st gen tundra... my bad

[oly884]

Yeppers, I've got a Tacoma.

I'll keep an eye out for one of those pioneer trailers, looks like i could get away with minimal modifications which would also be nice. I'll talk to my subaru buddy, along with my brother to see what they think of the project!

[DHC6twinotter]

I would love to build a trailer from scratch, but right now my focus is on the 4Runner. :D

This is one of my favorite trailer setups:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245499&stc=1&d=1216187872

http://forum.ih8mud.com/trailer-tech/158552-my-scratch-built-expedition-style-trailer-build-up-thread.html

[Obi..]

Wait 'til the money's right and IMHO build if you have the skills. It'll end up being lighter in weight and better materials which IIRC in the end will come out to be a cheaper expense.

Oh, and FWIW that's my fav too, it looks even better in person. :D

[oly884]

Well, unless I have come across a great deal, looks like I'll be going the build route. I'll still keep my eyes out for deals and what not, but I think I'll end up with a great trailer when all is said and done!

After talking to my Subaru buddy, I think we'll be able to pull this off. He's only got newer ('89+) suspension which is different than the suspension that deepmud on ExPo is using ('88 and older). He wants to try and see if we can get the newer suspension to work, but after seeing how easy it is to attach the suspension to the frame (4 bolts) it'd be stupid to not look for older Subarus.

[Erich_870]

Sounds good Oly. I look forward to hearing what your Subaru buddy finds for parts.

Erich

[oly884]

Sounds good Oly. I look forward to hearing what your Subaru buddy finds for parts.

Erich


I'm going to try and head out to a pull-a-part this weekend and try to find the older suspension, but I think Friday night we're going to see how much fab work would be necessary to make the newer style (macpherson strut) work. However, I have a feeling that the simplicity of the older torsion bar style setup will be too simple to pass up.

[oly884]

Alright, well talked with my buddy some more and looked at photos of the newer suspension.

Ain't gonna happen...

Far more complicated than what it's worth. I've just got to find an older Subaru suspension and go from there!

[DHC6twinotter]

Cool! I'm looking forward to this!

[oly884]

Update 3/29/2011

Well, the project is being put on the back burner for a while. Long story short, spring is the worst season for me, and I'm having to POUR money into my house right now (both for good and bad reasons) and I just don't have the time.

That being said, I've found a few places to pick up this suspension and when I get a free moment, I'm going to at least run out and pick that up since it's the only part that I'd have to find for the project.

I'll update the thread with any new updates/builds.