Spin-Off: Who's a Honda or Subaru Owner/Geek?

[Obi..]

I've been tossing the idea of a commuter back and forth and budget wise it's coming down to a really hard internal debate between a Corolla/Camry or Civic/Accord. I simply don't want to keep trying to drive the 4Runner long distances daily and killing our budget with 14-16mpg locally. *Yes, I'm aware that #'s low, but I also get 18-20 highway, but most of our driving is honestly w/i a 20 mile radius these days.

I have had friends in the past who were heavily involved in the modification scene that I simply have lost touch with and I am wondering since I know way too much about Toyotas what some here can tell me as far as Hondas. I am aware of the whole Mugen stuff, and also am pretty sure what I know tech wise will easily transfer, but want feedback on known issues (like our 3vze headgasket stuff, timing belts every 60-75k, other expected expenses or quirky problems) that I need to be aware of beforehand.

Also, forum suggestions, etc are appreciated as I am likely going to do some more homework and gather info for now and consider the whole used/new bit some time down the road unless someone offers up some decent $ for the 4Runner. *I can always build another rig, right? ;) For now the goal is simply info and feedback. Overall i have to say the Honda's are nudging ahead simply b/c of the level of factory and aftermarket support if I decide to go with a trans or engine swap in an older model so I can keep the fun side of things around. ;)

[Robinhood4x4]

Well, from the corolla side of things, it's been a good car. No real problems but it's econobox lineage does come through. The road noise is louder than other cars and it's very boring to drive. Oh, and it's a 2002. The only thing I've had to replace is the serpentine belt tensioner because it was making noise and I think it's starting to do it again.

On her 20 mile commute in mixed freeway/surface street, the wife will get 31 mpg but pure freeway it gets 38 mpg.

I would recommend a larger car than the corolla, especially if there's more than 2 of you. We've got the two of us and two small dogs, and the corolla is too small for longer trips.

[MTL_4runner]

I'm not into the tuner stuff at all so I can't help you there, but I've got a bone stock 2002 Honda Civic that has been bulletproof for me so far (owned it since 2004). The car gets incredible gas mileage (its a standard which about 1 MPG better than the auto tranny) and I usually take it on longer business trips. My regular commute is quite short so for that I'm still using my 4Runner because its winter (4WD beats FWD anyday ;)) and my Silverado diesel is getting a steering overhaul in my garage (yes, I know I have too many vehicles). The 4Runner did help me bash through a 2ft snowbank just this morning to get out and do errands so it's still going strong too. :D

Anyway, having been a mechanic I worked on primarily imports (mostly Honda / Toyota) and on the smaller car platform as far as the frequency of repairs I'd have to give a slight edge to the Civic over the Corolla, but I'd be splitting hairs to recommend one over the other for practicality's sake. Both get amazing gas mileage and are very reliable provided you remember to change the oil before it turns to sludge (I use a borescope and look for vehicles that are relatively clean inside the motor, usually from someone using synthetic oil over a long period of time). I'd say go with whichever you find the best deal on and forget about mileage at all (higher mileage will usually reduce the price significantly). Now you could look at the larger Camry / Accord segment too, but you will pay a fairly significant price for the added space in the form of a loss of fuel economy. If you have family of 4 or more and take long trips occasionally, you will find a Civic / Corolla too small, but if you have another vehicle to take trips in then to me it's a no brainer for a good commuter car.

Hope this helps.

[Obi..]

Definitely considering the space I'd lose by going with a car, buddy just picked up a TSX Wagon, we'll try throwing some gear in after I am back in town just to see what would fit from our usual stuff on trips into his ride, then we're gonna see what would stuff into his old Acura and whether or not I can consider a roof basket if we use a car for trips instead.

So at this point I even am viewing Acura's since IIRC the only differences are they're made stateside. Like I said, all we're doing is considering options more so since losing the wagon. We'll need a car soon enough either way.

[corax]

I miss my engine swapped '91 Hatchback Si, as soon as I get space to park another vehicle I'll be picking up another late 80's/early 90's Honda. Engine, brakes, suspension is all easily upgradable just by switching parts between models & years. Check out what Cody Crane (local OR talent) can do with a CRX and then look at any RA/NASA/CARS roster and tell me how many Toyotas you see compared to Hondas
Cody Crane and Pat Darrow at Max Attack. Rally Idaho '09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF-G7ohHf98#ws)

I've only had Hondas from the late 80's/early 90's and have seen 2 main concerns. There is a sealed bearing in the distributor that will go bad about once every 150k - the distributor sub assembly is ~$250 from a dealer, or you can buy a tamper-proof torx bit and match up the bearing at NAPA for $10. The other issue I've seen is the manual trans input bearing sometimes will make noise on engines that have seen consistent high revs - again, parts price is <$50 and this trans comes apart/goes back together soooo easy (~4 hours from the time you pull it in the garage till you pull it back out, with the rear tires on the ground & using a floor jack to drop the trans)

[Obi..]

*I have heard about the swapping of the suspension and brakes as well as swapping in newer engines, an old mechanic I was over does them all the time. If you know of a specific forum where I can read up on that sort of thing it would be really sweet since I can't find the site I thought the stuff was on.

The one's on my short list are:

http://www.honda-tech.com/

http://www.hondaforum.com/forum/

http://www.superhonda.com/

and

http://hondaswap.com/

[corax]

It's been years since I looked up anything Honda so I don't even remember what I was using for any kind of reference - a bunch of junkyard, "let's try it and see" mentality at the time.

BTW, Honda safety? Here's my '93 delSol after spinning at 80mph from black ice on a normally fun curve - my only injury was a scratch on the knuckle of my pinky finger that I got when I crawled through the passenger window (which I didn't even have to do since, I found out later, the driver door opened just fine)

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/previous%20rides/delsol2.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/previous%20rides/delsol3.jpg

[Obi..]

Ouch. *BTW, there's supposed to be a team rallying a Crosstour, I don't have any info on it though..who was the name you said would be in Guanajuato?

So what's the appeal with the new Accords in buying the I-4 over the V-6? I hear they sell more of those. Maybe it's me but I'd want the 3.5l 271h.p. V-6?? Then there's the deal with the 2.4l vs. the 2.4l, one has 170h.p. but the other has 190h.p.???

..and here I I thought Toyota engines were confusing, Honda has a boat load of options throughout the years and apparently within certain limits you can pretty much drop the engine and brace to swap in a different one and have it be almost 90% bolt in?

If I had to throw out cash for one I'd consider either a new one, or an older one but throw in an obd2 block, or am I wrong on this?

Quick, someone tell Lance to grab the site name ultimatehonda.com? ;)

[Crinale]

the 170hp vs the 190hp are the same engine, with different head and tuning.. they switched i believe around 08 to the 190hp version. (both are K24 engines).

i know a lot about hondas.. i had a 97 civic hatch that i did a "mini-me" swap on (taking the non-vtec motor in the DX/LX, and swapping the vtec head from the EX or older SI for a good 20-25hp gain). With my Neuspeed coils, strut bars front and rear, and some old Prelude wheels, I KILLED a z06 corvette from around 2000 on a local curvy road.. he was so pissed that when we hit the straight at the end he gassed it and was GONE :P.

As far as handling, you wont get better in any FWD compact car than a 92-95 (EG) civic hatchback, 96-00 (EJ/EK) is close behind (but weigh a couple 100lbs more). I really miss that hatch i had, I could flog that car all day long bouncing off the 7200rpm rev limiter (redline was 6700) and still get 28-30mpg.. if i babied it i would get anywhere from 35-40, but i was a high school student at the time, so I didnt baby it much :flipoff:

I have never heard of common problems other than the ones listed here (at least with the 4cyl hondas, a few older v6 accords had problems with the trannies). They are really strong, reliable little cars, and when something does actually go bad, they are really cheap to find parts for. As well as having a ridiculous aftermarket support as you mentioned.

On the subject of Acuras, they are the same in almost every way to their Honda counterparts, cept they came with more powerful engines. Both companies have been built in America for at least 20 years (my first car was a 1990 Civic LX, and was built in Ohio).

Any other questions feel free to ask, I know a lot about these cars, and this is barely touching the surface. honda-tech.com has the best info, but is kinda like NASIOC for subarus, and YT for yotas: they are huge forums with a lot of good info, but has more douchebags and morons that dont know what they are talking about than people who actually do.

[CJM]

Im not a huge fan of honda, everytime I sit in any of them they feel cheap and chintzy compared to even a corolla.

[Crinale]

Im not a huge fan of honda, everytime I sit in any of them they feel cheap and chintzy compared to even a corolla.


iv had the exact opposite feeling, all the corollas iv been in have a very cheap feeling interior with all hard plastics, and lots and lots of road noise..

edit: oh, and corollas get scary over 100mph.. they start floating a lot, whereas my old hatch i had up to 140 and it was completely stable.

[MTL_4runner]

Im not a huge fan of honda, everytime I sit in any of them they feel cheap and chintzy compared to even a corolla.


iv had the exact opposite feeling, all the corollas iv been in have a very cheap feeling interior with all hard plastics, and lots and lots of road noise..


Glad I'm not the only one who felt it was the other way around.

[Obi..]

:D Trust me, when and if it comes down to it there's a reason I'm considering Subaru and Honda. Toyota honestly is not impressing my in this category lately in the least.

FWIW I looked at the Acura TSX and test drove a Imprezza 5-door waggy as well as the Outbacks and Foresters for giggles. What's sad is that invariably my friends who are into this stuff will definitely be influencing our decision..there's only so much pressure they can exert on the wife before she see's things my way. Having GST and FFTec right here is just too much fun. ;)

The logic with the Subby's is as much as I like Honda/Acura, the benefit of having 4/Awd is playing back into this equasion since I might just sell the 4Runner or give it to family. Might even store it for a few years so I can keep it. :D

*Keith's a bad influence here also, knock it off with the Rally stuff, I knew I should never, ever had mentioned that crap way back when.

[Obi..]

**Since Subaru's are now also on the list I'm gonna modify the title and make sure a mod confirms the change.

[4x4mike]

We have an '05 Subaru Forester XT and it's been a great vehicle for us. It's a bit cramped for longer trips but for longer trips we'd take the 4runner anyway. The wagon has more creature comforts than the 4Runner as well as a lot more power. We've got a full Yakima set up for skis, bikes and cargo basket so sometime it's a toss up between which vehicle we take. On the freeway we can pull 32 mpg fully loaded so it does better than the 4Runner where we usually get 21-22 on the freeway.

[fenrisx]

We picked up an 02 Subi Impreza Sport (Outback) for the wife. She's getting around 25mpg, it's awd, and decently fun to drive. The only bad thing I have to say so far is 1. it seems a fuel leak on the passenger side of the engine bay in cold temps is extremely common with these engines -> if your vents pull in air form outside(defroster) the entire cabin smells of fuel. 2. The window defroster seems to be absolutely USELESS in the cold temps up here.. to the point you can't even check your blind spots before merging. Something to keep in mind if you're looking at any Subi that share the 2.5l engine.

Overall the MPG is pretty good, fun to drive, the hatch is roomier than most coupe trunks. They look pretty good also...

[Crinale]

and as i found out today, Subaru's wheel snow and mud pretty good too :thumbup:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183402_10150104546468106_691863105_6677549_3846781 _n.jpg