Indoor rock lights

[4x4mike]

I thought it was a little dark in my kitchen area so I built some "rock lights" to mount under my kitchen cabinets. Under the cabinets is the kitchen counter that connects with the family room. Removing the cabinets would really open up the room but it would also decrease our kitchen storage by 70% so they're staying.

This is the kitchen with the family room in the background.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TKK1Gsv9GhI/AAAAAAAAbd0/6945JbCcaFE/s800/DSC_0208.JPG

The kitchen lights are bright and are only really used when we're in the kitchen. I was looking for something that was a little more subtle and could be on a timer so they were on when we woke up and off after we're asleep.

I bought some LED's, wood, wire and aluminum and got to building. I decided to channel the backside of the wood to hide the wiring and make it as clean as I could since not much of the cabinet is hidden.

Here are the wood pieces.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TSj6XmOapDI/AAAAAAAAiG8/qLmSCxxOEHQ/s800/DSC08186.JPG

Heatsinks

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TTUpGJsMciI/AAAAAAAAiX4/j0N_GVdUqbA/s800/DSC08203.JPG

LED's

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUDhOeAKzGI/AAAAAAAAjEA/0k4PTs9Ctaw/s800/DSC08214.JPG

These are the 4 leds strung up. Now you can see why I used the wood to cover everything up.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGPNzDogI/AAAAAAAAjOo/0DnFJxPwMXQ/s800/DSC08234.JPG

Here it is mocked up on the garage floor. Should be able to take it in, nail it up and turn it on...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGPhbdnHI/AAAAAAAAjOw/ZpVNBW0cPyQ/s800/DSC08235.JPG

It ended up not being that easy. I could have easily used 4 more sets on hands but honestly they would have been in the way. This portion was a major PITA. It became a bigger pain the second time I had to do it after I mucked up the first go run. Lot's on duct tape and cribbing.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGRztCNoI/AAAAAAAAjPU/ghsj-fNafpY/s800/DSC08239.JPG

Finally got it up and working. Just awaiting some sanding and painting.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGTE4lF6I/AAAAAAAAjPs/zYuyIAygbZk/s800/DSC08242.JPG

Mood lighting. Our counter pretty much has this much crap on it all the time so it gave a good idea of what to expect with shadows and light output. All the other lights in the house were off so you can see the amount of light they put out. It's plenty without being too much. Perfect enough for food prep or even sitting down watching tv.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TVYRa3S_swI/AAAAAAAAkHY/OI57i7rOrvk/s800/DSC08255.JPG

Shot from down the hallway. I have it turn on just before I get up so I have some light to work with. All the other lights are too bright and I like to slip out before anyone wakes up. This also gives us some light to make it back to our bedroom with at night.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TVYRdDvg_TI/AAAAAAAAkII/hstBHcwE84s/s800/DSC08261.JPG

These LED's are the same as my rocklights, just powered differently. I've had a lot of fun with the LED on the 4runner (dome lights, rock lights, under hood lights, area light)so I thought I'd bring them inside. My next project is eave lighting around the exterior of my house. I'm about 98% complete with that project (11 total), fun stuff.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TVYRfyh9sAI/AAAAAAAAkI4/GxAbpzjIiXY/s800/DSC08267.JPG

[slosurfer]

:thumbup: Nice!

I really like the pic with your "cribbing" using everything from paper, tape, magazines, etc... :laugh:


Do you have a closeup of the actual light/heatsink all put together?

[CJM]

How are they powered?

[Robinhood4x4]

Very nice. Which LED's are those and what are you using to drive them?

[Obi..]

Nice, and here I was thinking the other day that once we get back stateside I need to try to visit family around you and see about having you build me some lights for my rig. How did you run them as 12volt, through a converter? *Are you using your iPod holder as your ride wallet like the rest of us? :)

[4x4mike]

:thumbup: Nice!

I really like the pic with your "cribbing" using everything from paper, tape, magazines, etc... :laugh:


Do you have a closeup of the actual light/heatsink all put together?


Dude I went through a ton of tape and magazines. The wood got me part way there the magazines were like shims. I had asked for help but my help was updating her blog. When she came in to 'help' I in formed her she had been replaced by tape and whatnots.

This is what they look like on the heatsinks. These are the outdoor versions but pretty much the same.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGUPVwLZI/AAAAAAAAjQM/UGYDibZ8Mrc/s800/DSC08246.JPG

[4x4mike]

How are they powered?


They are 12 volt and 350ma. Basically a transformer for larger circuits like this and my eave project. The output is maintained up to 48 volts where are the vehicle stuff stops at 12v.

Driver. It just plugs into a regular 120v household socket.
Ken found these and are really big in the reef world. Indoor aquariums guys are way into leds, light shows and heatsink stuff :nerd: and they are fun to read.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TVYRYd3BuLI/AAAAAAAAkGo/uZJu25TMo7E/s800/DSC08247.JPG

[4x4mike]

Very nice. Which LED's are those and what are you using to drive them?


The driver is posted above. I think they were under $20 each/ delivered. They make a higher output version as well as a dimming one but 350ma is all I needed for the kitchen. We'll see about the eave lights and then landscape lights. The dimming on needs a powered potentiometer so it's got more wires and plugs. After running as much wire as I have been lately I'd like to keep it simple.

The kitchen lights are Crees from Cutter. We chose a warm bin and I think they're around 3300-3500K. They maybe Q3's. All the higher bins are much colder light and made to run brighter. I messed up a first batch and had to order more and ended up with something else. They are just the emitters, no star, and are around 3000K. The 3000k ones will be for the covered walkway to my front door and have a totally different fixture. I drilled a 1" hole in the covered portion and stuck the fixture in it. All you'll see is the emitter and a small PVC ring. I like how those turned out and when they're off you'd never notice them.

Emitter vs star. Emitters are a bit harder to solder to and mount to heat sinking.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TWXc9sXO9DI/AAAAAAAAkaw/JWOjljEWPZs/s800/DSC08278.JPG

Part of the covered walkway fixture.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TWXc96i4zbI/AAAAAAAAka4/PmHDdL9pdhs/s800/DSC08280.JPG

At 350ma these leds barely get warm. My rocklights are at 500ma and I have vehicle domes at 350, 500, and 700 ma. Basically they get warm and then hot after 350ma. Take a spoon out of the drawer and hold onto it for a couple minutes, that's how warm the driver and heatsinks get in the kitchen.

[4x4mike]

Nice, and here I was thinking the other day that once we get back stateside I need to try to visit family around you and see about having you build me some lights for my rig. How did you run them as 12volt, through a converter? *Are you using your iPod holder as your ride wallet like the rest of us? :)


My wallet is a fishing license holder. It's small, waterproof and fits in a jersey pocket. I use the Timbuk2 holders for my point and shoot and another for my video ipod.

[4x4mike]

Even though my daughter will be 2 next week it's the same as having a baby in the house. If she's sleep you better be quiet. We have a "You wake her, you take her" rule so I'm like a ninja. She takes a nap about mid day so if I'm home that is the amount of time I have to work on EVERYTHING and I have ALOT, the kitchen lights being one of them. In the interest of conserving time and being quiet I developed a quiet way to drive nails. Hammering overhead is a pain and made even worse when the cabinet is full of dishes and stemware. I decided to shove them in with brute power and was surprised. This method was even used when the kiddo was awake because it's also wife compliant. You see my wife loves the light but doesn't really care how it got there but nevertheless it's best if it got there quietly (I'm the same way).

Behold
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGSY56ZqI/AAAAAAAAjPc/rZcGwK0lV0A/s800/DSC08240.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TUYGSuyisXI/AAAAAAAAjPk/3onZ_mRMpUs/s800/DSC08241.JPG

I also used this with a punch to counter sink the nail heads. :drink:
Only catch is you can still fold a nail over as if you were hammering it in the traditional way. Only using this method you pinch your entire finger, f'up the wood and have the potential to send a nail flying. No wives or kiddos were hurt in the making of this project or thread.

[04 Rocko Taco]

I'm not knocking at all, because these look outstanding, and I can appreciate the fun of a good home improvement project. :) ....But you know they do make LED under cabinet lights, right?

I have used the standard halogen low voltage puck type lights under the cabinets in our house before, and was very satisfied with them. I'm sure thought that you have more fun and experience with the LED's and going this route. Just out of curiosity, what was your cost on the project?

[4x4mike]

I'm not knocking at all, because these look outstanding, and I can appreciate the fun of a good home improvement project. :) ....But you know they do make LED under cabinet lights, right?

I have used the standard halogen low voltage puck type lights under the cabinets in our house before, and was very satisfied with them. I'm sure thought that you have more fun and experience with the LED's and going this route. Just out of curiosity, what was your cost on the project?


Cost for the project was about $50 all said and done. Fifty bucks at home depot or lowes would have gotten me 3 little blue lights, an ugly plug and a bunch of wires. LEDs are becoming widely available and most home improvement stores have scores of different types (under cabinet, security lights, lamps, ceiling lights, etc). For the most part the under cabinet lights are generic and look temporary to me. My fixture is close to 12 feet long and totally custom. I could have bought and taken apart a ready made one but I'd still be out money to build it into my cabinets. In my case I chose my color/tint of led, driver/brightness and mounting option. We figured these will cost me about 7 dollars a year to operate for being on 7 hours a day. I'll try to dig up the pictures I took at Lowes of their offerings.

[4x4mike]

This is some of the offerings from Lowes.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TXZT8G2mYuI/AAAAAAAAkrg/AqUEBwF8XCs/s800/0218011208.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TXZT8C6L7ZI/AAAAAAAAkro/Eii9DGYJ3xk/s800/0218011208a.jpg

These LED lights are 50, 60 and 70 dollars and are pretty short, much less than the 12 feet I need.

[04 Rocko Taco]

I see your point, I have used the puck style lights in the first picture on the shelf under step 1 step 2 and step 3.

[Robinhood4x4]

For the most part the under cabinet lights are generic and look temporary to me. My fixture is close to 12 feet long and totally custom.


Gotta agree there, the installation looks very good, very professional.

[4x4mike]

I even surprised myself with the install as I tend to rush things.

I just got inside from snapping some pics of my outdoor eave lights. I've been dragging my feet about plugging them in because if I messed up somewhere the leds would be toast and I'd basically have to start over (read: time and money). The power source is temporary right now but I wanted to make sure they all worked before I finalized things and cleaned it all up.

Again Ken helped on the power source and idea of doing all this. He's doing it as well but he's got bigger indoor projects than I.

Outside backyard shot.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TXcODlIohJI/AAAAAAAAk3Y/m_pTEz--dwg/s800/DSC_0208.JPG

The very left led is just behind the gate that goes to the driveway/front of the house. There is a security light motion detector light over the garage so that side is covered. The 5th led (right side) is over the BBQ. I BBQ year round and it sucks at night. I wheel the BBQ away from the house and go at it, now I have light and a dark portion of the house is now lit. I also have 2 lights further around the corner where it's really bright but those need adjusting and just shine at a wall of the house.


The front yard got 4 lights up to the front door. Like I said the install isn't complete so these are held up with yellow masking tape, hence the very warm color. The 4th light, closet to the front door is not hooked up because that's the LED I robbed the power leads from. Once I figure that out I'll seal the 4 lights and remove the tape. The porch light before was a 13w CFL that was too bright and not all that good looking. I hope that once I add some led yard lighting it will all blend and look much better.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6hyBcEQWF14/TXcOIPIV5RI/AAAAAAAAk4Y/k6xucYZqGbw/s800/DSC_0216.JPG

[paddlenbike]

Regarding purchasing LED cabinet lights, Mike is right. We were both shopping for them and the old rule of "you get what you pay for" comes into play with LEDs more than any other product I have encountered. You can spend $50 per 18" strip for a really ugly blue light with a mass of wires or you can pay $186 for an 18.5" long strip of Kichler under cabinet lights. A properly built Cree setup like Mike's is at least equal to a Kichler fixture, only the price comes in at less than the junky stuff. That's why we did a combined order for a ton of LEDs for under and over cabinet lighting and our eave projects.

The challenge with the indoor projects is making them look nice and not burning the house down. You basically cannot meet electrical code with a home-built fixture. The LED driver is UL listed, but everything after that it is only Ken-listed. Luckily the voltage and amperage we are dealing with is low, but you still have to adequately heatsink the fixture and match your wire size to the amount of current and length of wire you are dealing with.

My outdoor eave project will require some additional home wiring. I could tap a plug in my attic, but that plug is for the HVAC unit and by code it has to be on its own circuit. I have an outdoor plug for my spa, but same story there, it needs a dedicated circuit shared with nothing else. So I decided the best course of action was to add a new outlet in my attic using an existing garage circuit. There is a plug in my ceiling for the garage door opener, so I can add a junction box and add a duplex outlet, which will also allow me to plug in an additional overhead fluorescent light in my attic. Even though my home-built fixtures will never meet code, I want it as close as possible. So now you all know what my life consists of right now. :)

[Bob98SR5]

that is so f'g sweet

[4x4mike]

I was hanging out in my front yard last night and snapped a few recent pics. Here is the covered walkway without the yellow masking tape over the leds.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u9RncRTbFl4/TqeJCet5PHI/AAAAAAAApaE/UOXp-PWd_0c/s800/DSC_0010.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Fad0sf8NyfA/TqeJB3xauHI/AAAAAAAApZ8/WY9gt6oWT-Q/s800/DSC_0008.JPG

It's not really that bright. I didn't have time to mess with camera settings so it's on auto with no flash.

I've recently added some 12v led up lights and path lights and want to see how they were doing. Now that it is getting darker earlier it's easier for me to go out and make adjustments. Again they are not this bright. The 3 up lights close together are only 2.5 watt units but the photo makes them seem like 20-30 watts. The single up light on the left is 7 watts.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LYObKL5HzqQ/TqeI_GBg-GI/AAAAAAAApZg/q1lnDVWr8pY/s800/DSC_0001.JPG

I think it looks better in person but more than anything I wanted to update the thread.

[paddlenbike]

You have an open invitation to come hang out in my attic to help me wire mine. I love vaulted ceilings until it's time to work up there...

[4x4mike]

Sure. Let me fill up on beer and pork rinds before I crawl into a confined space to do intricate work. True story, let me know and I'll be there to poke holes in your house.

[paddlenbike]

Notice: I am officially poaching Mike's thread. :tongueout: Here are my "house rocklights." The goal was to light the perimeter of my house for security, convenience and to some extent, architectural interest. Security-wise, I wanted light in the driveway, on both sides of the two side gates, in the entryway and above the rear sliding glass door.

Here are the housings:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6HnxZZoMvUc/Tsv0xFe1mgI/AAAAAAAAGUY/e4UsdLXtNrc/s640/housings.jpg

Here is the front of the house with two light rigs over the garage door and one in the entryway.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BtJdbqqDs8U/TsvyYkQ9i5I/AAAAAAAAGT4/EBfZVswDY-g/s640/DSC_0820r.jpg
I like having some light on the vehicles at night, particularly since the 4Runner is a hit among catalytic converter thieves. The corner of the house is lit and the entire pathway to the rear of the home is illuminated. The gate in this pic is wide open, but there is a light overhead on both sides of the gate for security. (The light you see directly to the left of the garage door is the house number.)

Here is a view on the same side of house; view looking from the rear of the house to the front:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZawJGCyd5WY/TsvyYfomEwI/AAAAAAAAGTs/18VO-QEyPqQ/s640/DSC_0815r.jpg

The opposite side is lit too, no pic though.

And here is the front view:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-akfpnBLQ5Tk/TsvyZJuZ0jI/AAAAAAAAGT8/tzayD6mYDgI/s640/DSC_0829r.jpg
The regular porch light (turned off for this pic) is mounted on the right side of the entryway, so previously there was no light outside of the entryway column, no light on the 90-degree sidewalk approach, and no light in the driveway. With one LED directly overhead in the entryway, light fills the area in front of window and extends far enough to illuminate the 90-degree sidewalk, aided of course by the lights over the garage. To the left of the home you can see the sidegate is illuminated as well.

I am really happy with the result. For one, there is light where the entire perimeter of my home was completely dark before. Now I can walk around the house at night without having to carry a flashlight. The light is dim enough to not produce excessive light pollution yet bright enough that hopefully thieves will be dissuaded. It's on a battery backup with the house alarm, so killing the power doesn't phase it. Total draw is under 14 watts and the one in the entryway is bright enough that I no longer use the regular porch light. I was planning on adding another light on the peak over the entryway but decided against it for fear of it looking too busy. Appearance-wise, I like the look but others may not. The next step is to add some LED pathway lighting to illuminate the rock steps in the foreground that you cannot see in the photo.

Funny that my house has rock lights and my truck does not.

[flyfishexpert]

Bookmarked!!!

Great stuff guys, thanks for sharing.

[4x4mike]

I was digging around in my LED bin yesterday and found 3 extra cheapy ebay led's I bought for my 4Runner footwell lights. My plan is to put them in the eaves of a currently unlit portion of my house. I know, hard to believe I don't already have LED's over there.

The LED's are from ebay and come in a pack of 10. They are low power and self regulating. I bought them for footwell lights in our Subaru and 4Runner and an very happy with those applications.

In the photos above you can see I have some landscape lighting. It's Malibu brand and the lights are LED's (3 different types of fixtures). I plan to use the Malibu transformer to power the ebay LED's so they will come on at dusk where as the other eave lights are on a timer, no bigge.

The ebay LED's are 3000k and are as bright at the 0.5 watt Malibu pathlights in the photos above.

Fixtures are going to be easy and use some PVC pieces I already have in my stash (3/4" couplers). I made these test rigs and have them on observe. I want to see how warm they get and their beam pattern. So far they haven't caught on fire so things are looking good. The nice thing about low power is that they give off almost no heat. My digital temp gun shows them at 101* which is about fine.

Pics of my test rigs.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4pq72UGrHTo/T0nvzkNCYmI/AAAAAAAAsRM/uIIxSlOvM7g/s800/IMAG0946.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fIXQtostDVI/T0nv7eFJ2YI/AAAAAAAAsRc/hY4ElRg5tzM/s800/IMAG0948.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1JJt5FCXJJQ/T5oMxQXY8aI/AAAAAAAAuOw/Bo8wAAQWFhQ/s800/IMAG1290.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OBHGVIEQwpg/T5oNDBVn79I/AAAAAAAAuPA/99T22oVd0zA/s800/IMAG1293.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

got a part number or some ebay search terms for those? I can't find them.

And damn you I don't need another project right now!

[4x4mike]

I'll get you something when I get on a computer. There are a lot of different types. I chose these because of the color which is nice instead of getting something cold and blue. These are about half the efficency of a cree xr-e.

[4x4mike]

Kind of weird. I logged onto eBay and through my purchases I can found what I bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=130622606068&view=all&tid=621029099003

Now if I search the ebay number it shows this which is much more expensive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/130622606068?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D130622606068%26_ rdc%3D1

I paid $15.99 with free shipping. 5 are in our Subaru and 2 are in the 4runner. The last 3 are going in the eaves.

[Robinhood4x4]

I like your price much better. Are you still able to purchase the ones in your first link for the original price? When I click on the first link, it asks me to log on and then it says the item is no longer available.

[4x4mike]

That's what it says for me too. That link was from my purchased items through myeBay.

[4x4mike]

Well it took a couple of days but during nap time (wife, daughter and son) I got the light fixtures up today. I wanted something a little cleaner but it's not bad at all. I basically drilled a hole through the coupler and ran a screw through the empty fixture and screwed it into the short section of truss that is part of my eave.

This section of my house is only traveled by me and even then it's only about once a month and not at night. It's my side backyard and is nothing but a parking pad where I store my trailer. Both our bathroom windows look out there so I glance daily but never go back there.

Until now it's been unlit (dark). It's pretty inaccessible and if someone was hiding back there to get into the house they'd have to jump a fence and even then they'd have to squeeze through a small bathroom window smaller than my head.

Now if there was a bump in the night I could look out the window and actually see. The trailer is lit (unseen in the pic, it's at a neighbors house tonight) and very well actually. The leds are as bright and the same color as the crees I have in the other eaves and entry way. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out and was way easy.

The only thing that kind of gets me is the heat. The front led emitter side is warm. If I reached up and touched it with my pointer finger it's like a 7 out of a 10, where as a 10 would make me retract. They are warmer than my other leds but my others are heatsinked. These would be very hard to heat sink because the back of them are circuit boards and you can't attach anything to them without shorting it out. Plus none of the heat comes off the back, it's the front where the light comes from. I'll run them for awhile and see how they work out. They run off my landscape lighting circuit so they'll turn off after about 6 hours of being on where the other leds run until sun up.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-phHoyToS6bc/T54iLnCiV9I/AAAAAAAAuQo/QHSPG5OCA74/s800/IMAG1302.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ll-l2omSnes/T54iO6kQR6I/AAAAAAAAuP8/y73nCFCAh7M/s800/IMAG1303.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0nl77gmCRko/T54iSl_btsI/AAAAAAAAuQE/PNzfN26M4EY/s800/IMAG1304.jpg


The cell phone didn't like looking up at them.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wqssVhXv70Y/T54iYcxTZjI/AAAAAAAAuQU/SruXc5Yw2r8/s800/IMAG1306.jpg

[4x4mike]

It looks like my LED project made the big leagues. I saw this in their blog today. Next month they will be 4 years old. They run every night/day, cobweb removal has been the only required maintenance and nothing has burned down! (knock on wood)

http://www.ledsupply.com/blog/3-led-projects-customers/

[Kryptoroxx]

That is a very cool project mike. Makes me kinda rethink how to do some of the light ideas in the 4runner. I really like the look though. Very sleek and elegant. Whenever I get around to having my own place I plan on doing my own deck at least and building built in book cases but it looks like I could do some lighting projects as well.