Subaru owners?

[oly884]

Well, after some though I've reached the conclusion that my truck has really become a non-daily driver. The camper isn't fun to take on and off all the time, and even with the camper off, the mileage I get with it is hard to justify constantly taking in on and off every time I go camping (which is at least once a month). So that has lead me to start looking for a car to get around. I had originally wanted something super cheap to get me from A to B, but have now decided that something that'll last me a while, can be used in the snow, and is decent enough to go out and about with is going to be the best option.

After lots of looking, I'm fairly set on a 2001-2003 Subaru Outback, but if anyone has other suggestions for AWD vehicles, I'll gladly take them. Anyways, the price range I'm looking at ranges from 6-9k depending on what the car is loaded with, history, mileage, etc. Anyone own these or have any comments? I've got a buddy who's a big Subaru guy and he has nothing bad to say about them (imagine that...)

The other dilemma is whether to get an auto or manual transmission... I'm torn because I've always driven manual transmissions and never really enjoyed automatics. However, with this being a DD that isn't going to see much dirt roads, and will be used to commute in traffic in downtown seattle, there's a little voice saying that an auto may be the better choice. Combine that with having an automatic being a better choice should anyone (eg. a lady friend) want/need to drive it in the event they don't know how to drive an manual. Any thoughts on this?

The truck will still be around of course. It will basically become my "RV" in every sense of the meaning. Although I don't have much left to do to it, having a DD other than the truck will allow me to take on maintenance, repairs, modifications myself without having to worry about what I'll drive come the work week.

[DHC6twinotter]

I rented a 2005 Outback several years ago, and I loved that car. Great for travel, nice interior, and we even drove it up the side of a mountain.

My only complaint with the car was the transmission. Our rental had the 4spd auto and 4 banger engine, and the gear ratios were too far apart. I could be climbing a hill in 3rd gear, and all of a sudden, the tranny downshifts to 2nd and it sounds like the engine is going to blow. This car really needed a 5spd auto. For this reason alone, I vote for just going with a manual tranny, or find a H6 model if you want an auto. The 4 cylinder and 4spd auto isn't a good combo, imho. Now that all being said, we did have the car pretty loaded down with 4 people and some bags. Other than that, fantastic car.

I love Subarus, and if I ever get a DD, a Subaru would be at the top of my list (after a Lexus IS).

Just my $.02.

[oly884]

I rented a 2005 Outback several years ago, and I loved that car. Great for travel, nice interior, and we even drove it up the side of a mountain.

My only complaint with the car was the transmission. Our rental had the 4spd auto and 4 banger engine, and the gear ratios were too far apart. I could be climbing a hill in 3rd gear, and all of a sudden, the tranny downshifts to 2nd and it sounds like the engine is going to blow. This car really needed a 5spd auto. For this reason alone, I vote for just going with a manual tranny, or find a H6 model if you want an auto. The 4 cylinder and 4spd auto isn't a good combo, imho. Now that all being said, we did have the car pretty loaded down with 4 people and some bags. Other than that, fantastic car.

I love Subarus, and if I ever get a DD, a Subaru would be at the top of my list (after a Lexus IS).

Just my $.02.


Thanks for the advice! I'll probably go test drive both an auto and manual and see what my feelings are. I'd personally be just fine with a manual, but when I consider what I'll be using the vehicle for, there's a part of me that says an automatic would be better in the long run. Easier to drive in traffic (and downtown seattle with the hills), easier for others to drive in the event I can't or they need to borrow it, and so on.

What you described with autos going up hills is what annoys me the most with them, but then again, most trips I'll be planning over the pass will be with my truck, this car will just be the DD to get me around town, to work, etc, so perhaps it won't be as much of an issue for me.

Thanks again!

[4x4mike]

Not much to add about the 01-03 Outbacks. My wife and I have an 05 Forester XT and we like it a lot. It's been a great little car but it is little. We're normal sized people and have a normal sized 2 year old and it works fine. If we need to tow or going on a longer trip we take the 4runner. We could pack it all in the Forester but and Outback would fit our needs perfectly.

When we were shopping for the Subaru we were looking for an AWD car that we could take up skiing and could hold 4 people. At the time I had a full sized truck that had an open bed and only carried 3 people. We've never looked for cars that are "great" mileage as there are so many other factors that need to be considered especially with a family.

My wife wanted the 5 speed so that was nice. After driving a few Foresters I told her if we get one we'd need to get the turbo. At the time all we could find were auto turbos and they left something to be desired. Once we found ours we told the dealer we wanted it before we even test drove it. It's an '05 with just under 70K and it's been going strong. My wife drives it so I can't tell you what it gets for mileage.

As with any make or model people have varied opinions. Search your year outbacks and see what people say and then make your educated choice. People seem to love or hate everything. I know others with similar yeared Foresters and it seems they have a lot of problems some being costly. It might just be maintenance issues but you'll have that with a lot of vehicles especially vehicles that are DD'en.

[RobG]

I've got a 2000 Outback 4cyl auto, we really like it. It's my daily driver as my 93 4runner is too expensive to drive every day (gas and tires). I believe it is similar to the years you are looking at with a few less horsepower, not sure if 2001 was the new body style. The AWD is great, only got stuck once and that was a major mistake. Great in the rain for driving too fast or for getting around in the snow. Only downside to the AWD is gas mileage, I get around 18 city and mid 20's+ on a highway trip. I've had it offroad in places most people don't take their SUV's, have done a few wheel stands, only bad thing off road are the anti-lock brakws. We even pull our 2000lb tent trailer with it although you don't want to be behind me going up a pass.

We bought the car from my mother in law who bought it new, It was a lemon for her but after a full engine replacement under warranty it's been pretty good since except for the auto trans which we had to replace about a year ago. I wouldn't have bought it knowing it's history but we got a smoking deal. There is a major issue with the Subaru auto trans in my year, not sure how it relates to the transmission in the years you are looking into. There is also a head gasket issue with my engine but it is an external leak and Subaru replaced it a no charge outside of warranty.

I would love to trade my auto for a manual and probably will look into that in the future. I'd definitely recommend the manual even though I haven't driven one. The Auto is one of the better shifting autos I have ever driven, just don't like autos traffic or not.

Friend of mine up in Seattle bought a used Baja a year or so ago and loves that. It's Auto with the turbo he says it has good enough power, couldn't find a 5spd Baja up there.

I rented a 2011 outback and hated it, way bigger and drove a lot different than mine does.

Hope that helps a little.

Rob

[oly884]

Thanks Rob!

My buddy has me now looking at Forester 2.5XT's, and not going to lie, they look pretty badass! A bit more of a car than what I am really shooting for, but no complaints from me should I come across one for a good price!

[4x4mike]

Thanks Rob!

My buddy has me now looking at Forester 2.5XT's, and not going to lie, they look pretty badass! A bit more of a car than what I am really shooting for, but no complaints from me should I come across one for a good price!


Keep in mind they are a little small. We have an 05 FXT and my wife and I are 5'10". For the most part it's fine while being just a little cramped. We have a little one in a car seat and she can kick the back of the passenger seat while in her car seat, she's only 2 and has short little legs. The back seat is OK but I wouldn't want to be back there for more than a couple hours.

The car has plenty of power and rides really well. In my mind it was a great purchase.

[oly884]

Well I'm 5'-8" and don't plan on kids, so I think it'll do just fine, definitely testing one out though!

[fenrisx]

We got my wife an 02 Outback Sport this past winter. It seemed like a great car at first. Shortly after when the weather was real code we started smelling gas fumes in the car on cold days. El Google revealed that there's a fuel rail problem on a nice span of Subaru models spanning over a wide range of years.

And now when it's hot out the car jerks real bad sometimes, and acts like it's about to die! So.. I'm going to have to figure out what's going on with that. OTHERWISE, it's been a good car. Fun to drive, good on gas, good value, and awd.

P.S.
If you end up with an Outback Sport I would highly recommend wiping the windows down with an anti-fog solution. They fog up to the point you can check blind spots in the winter, and the vents do about zilch to make it go away!

[paddlenbike]

A previous girlfriend had an '05 Outback XT--I liked the car but the more I researched it the more I learned about the problems some models have. The car was only two years old and was having overheating problems; here is some information I still had in my bookmarks that might help you avoid certain models:

Some answers to the Subaru head gasket problem.

At our shop we see a fair amount of Subaru’s with failed head gaskets. There are two separate groups or years of production that the failures fall into. The following information is aimed at educating our customers about the problems, what to look for, tips on how to avoid future problems, and what to if your Subaru has developed problems with the head gaskets.

The first group is the 1st generation 2.5l engine found predominantly in the 1996 to 1999 Outback, Legacy G.T., Forrester (up to mid year 1998) and Subaru Impreza R.S. This group usually, will develop an internal head gasket leak ultimately resulting with an overheating engine.

Early signs of head gasket failure in the 1st generation Subaru 2.5l engine will include an oily residue found in the coolant overflow bottle also possible is an exhaust, fuel or sulfur smell in the coolant over flow bottle. From there what typically happens next is intermittent higher than normal coolant temperature gauge readings, followed with intermittent overheating especially during a long freeway trip or a drive up the mountain passes.

The second group is the 2nd generation Subaru 2.2l and 2.5l engines found in the Forrester from mid year 1998, Impreza from mid year 1998, the Outback and Legacy from 2000.The early symptoms that occur in the 2nd generation engines is usually an external oil leak at both head gaskets and an external coolant leak at the left side head gasket, we have seen coolant leaks at the right side head gasket as well but at a much lower failure rate than the left side. We have seen some of the same intermittent overheating symptoms, but the bulk of the issues seem to be external leaks.

Early detection of failing head gaskets is the key to keeping the repair costs down. Typically speaking when the problem is diagnosed and repaired at the earliest signs of failure the potential for additional damage can be held to a minimum.

The problems are fairly well known, and the internet is a great tool for information. Unfortunately a lot of automotive professionals do not truly understand the potential causes of the failure. If the problem isn’t properly understood then some of the advise as to how to avoid the potential failure or reasons as to why this happened may be incomplete.

The good news!

We have yet to see a repaired and properly maintained vehicle have the same problem twice. And we feel that when the repair is done completely, it is a bump on the road to 300,000 miles.

Here is some of the technical information related to the gaskets used.

In 1996 on the 2.5l engine Subaru used a composite type head gasket similar in construction to the head gaskets found in the Subaru Legacy & Impreza 2.2l engine. Starting in 1997 and used through 1999 Subaru began to use a multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film. And this is where the problem has started.

What we typically see with these gaskets is that the film between the combustion chamber and the cooling jacket or passageway is compromised allowing coolant into the combustion chamber and exhaust pressure and temperature into the cooling system. Subaru has come up with an updated head gasket design that seems to be holding up well.

In mid year 1998 Subaru redesigned the 2.2l and 2.5l, most of the changes were in the cylinder heads and camshaft configurations. This design has had mostly problems with external head gasket leaks. Both oil and coolant. The Old vs New. You can see the significant changes that were made in the design in the first generation gasket but not so much in the 2nd Gen in regards to the gaskets offered by Subaru. You can also see the significant difference in the gaskets we use here.

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/shop-pics-_1-040.jpg

[DHC6twinotter]

That is some good info Ken! Have you heard about any head gasket issues on the 3rd gen Outbacks? How are the H6 engines?

[Crinale]

dan - the h6 isnt the most reliable engine.. its also a heavy pig for a car like a subaru.

My mom drives a 2000 Outback with 4cyl/auto. I must say it is one of my least favorite autos ive ever driven, although its good for manually shifting. I have taken it through some pretty good snow (there is a thread in the trip reports forum here). its really a great car for commuting and cruising, can haul a LOT of crap and is really comfortable. The heated seats/mirrors in the "winter package" are awesome for the wet/cold days. I really have nothing bad to say bout the Outback, even on 6hr plus drives its comfortable. The Impreza howwever (i used to have an Impreza TS, 2.5 5 speed), had terrible seats.. my back would hurt after like an hour driving it. That transmission was quite nice though (same trans as in the outback manual), perfect gear ratios.

[oly884]

Thanks for the info guys!

I'm taking a look at a '02 Forester S on Sunday I hope. Clean history, one owner, HG replaced last year along with a new clutch (yep, it's a 5-speed). Few cosmetic things with it, but other than that seems like a mechanically solid vehicle (I'll verify that on Sunday). If it all works out, hopefully I'll be driving it home!

Decided against the XT since finding a 5-speed isn't exactly easy and after talking to my Subi buddy, I have no interest in getting an automatic anymore. Nothing "wrong" with them, but since I'm shopping used, it's a far more expensive gamble should the transmission be on the way out.

[paddlenbike]

My friend's 2010 Forester XT had a major engine recall; I can't recall for sure what the specific issue is. Do a search, I know Subaru had to redesign the 2011s because they had so many problems with the 2010 Forester engine redesign. I do know Subaru had headgasket problems on 2010 models because they had to redesign the gaskets for the 2011s. Briefly discussed in the comments here. (http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-changed-there-head-gasket-for-the-2010-25l/)

Subaru quite simply do not seem to have their acts together. They used to produce bulletproof cars, but now they seem to have a lot of problems. And to answer your question, my ex-gf's 3rd gen Outback turbo had an overheating problem when it was two years old. My guess is the gaskets will fail if they haven't already.

[Crinale]

Subaru quite simply do not seem to have their acts together. They used to produce bulletproof cars, but now they seem to have a lot of problems.

ever since Toyota took over controlling share of the company.. go figure :P

[paddlenbike]

ever since Toyota took over controlling share of the company.. go figure :P


I wouldn't buy a new Toyota either. I don't think their products are the best any more and they certainly don't make anything exciting. In the late-90s I wanted one of every car they made--the Supra turbo, MR2 turbo, Celica All-Trac turbo...what do they make now that has any excitement? A Matrix? :shake:

[oly884]

Well, picked up a subi last night.

'99 black Forester S 5 speed with 97k miles. Few dings here and there, but the inside is immaculate. Will post pics sometime soon....

[Crinale]

nice find Oly! im sure you will enjoy it, I know i still miss my Impreza..

[oly884]

Here she is:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6004/5986020136_32dab04d17_o.jpg