1988 4Runner Winch bumper opinions

[corax]

So I figure it's time for a new project and with some of the organizations I may be getting involved with a winch bumper is finally in order. I'm modeling the base of it off Robinhood4x4's bumper build (http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=177.0) - I really dig his multi-mount functionality (BTW, anyone else notice in his build that the coolness factor of his bumper must have rubbed off on the IFS and turned it into a SAS?)

Excuse the poor google Sketch Up renderings, but this is what I have so far. I could easily build another tube bumper, something like this
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/tube1alt1.jpg
and mocked up to a 2nd gen pickup since I couldn't find a pre-made 4runner model
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/tubealtmockup.jpg

Or I was thinking of making a tube bumper and then fiberglassing between the tubes to make front storage compartments. The finished product would look something like this, the lines off the winch plate would be tube - the 2 lowest tubes being 1.5" and the 2 upper ones just 1"
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/plate1.jpg
I couldn't get the planes on the bumper quite right, but hopefully this'll give some kind of idea where I'm going
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/platemockup.jpg

I'm getting 1/4" plate for the winch mount and center part of the bumper today, that'll get built this week at work. So what'cha think? Should I go with plain tube or try to build something a bit different with fiberglass over a tube framed bumper?

[corax]

A bit of progress today. I picked up a 1/4 plate remnant and started on the center part of the bumper. Here it is all laid out and ready to get cut
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/01winchmountlaidout.jpg

After a few hours with the Sawzall, grinder and HF Welder (just to tack it together). I'll probably take it to work and use their welder to burn the final welds in - every gusset and plate is getting welded on both sides
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/03winchmount.jpg

[DHC6twinotter]

Awesome! I like fab threads. Looks good Keith!

[4x4mike]

Tech = Good.

I like the look of plate bumpers as tube leaves everything exposed. I like your idea of the fiberglass over tube. I don't envy the project but like your creativity.

[Seanz0rz]

looks good keith! i like the idea of the fiberglass over tube, very creative and will keep weight down.

i never liked tube bumpers. and i hate fiberglass, good luck! i really look forward to seeing more!

[04 Rocko Taco]

I guess I am the odd man out here, I like tube bumpers. Either way I'm not sure I envy your project and the work involved, but I cannot wait to see the finished result.

[corax]

The more I look at it, the more I'm liking the tube design (I'm gonna try to add in headlight protection when I get time). Maybe that design with a fiberglass top and front would work. The storage idea, I think, has some merit, but I could easily see anything put in there becoming a dirty, moldy mess unless I can get the sealing right.

As far as the fiberglassing goes, I don't think it'll be that much work. If I go that route, I was considering using expanded steel tacked to the tubes to make the basis and form to lay the fiberglass on - only the outside has to be sanded to look pretty. And then there's the issue of the fiberglass right on top of the tube cracking if I bump a tree or rock - maybe just 'glass some panels between the tube? Either way, this is going to be a bit of a slow build so I have plenty of time to gather thoughts and ideas. Thanks for the input so far :D

[04 Rocko Taco]

Why fiberglass over thin sheet metal?

Use 18 gauge or something with a couple of braces to make the same things you want to make out of fiberglass, still relatively lightweight, and much more prone to withstnd the rigors of being on the front of an offroaded truck.

[Seanz0rz]

:good:

[Obi..]

:D Keith, definitely go with a tube bumper, dzus tabs, fiberglass plate or 18/20ga plate for fill-in, just like I said a couple years ago, baja stylee. ~I just haven't gotten the time to do it on mine yet, the tabs are sitting at my family's house still. I have a stack of cardboard sheets from diaper boxes for the templates too. ;) LOL>The benefit is a tube bumper allows so much room for changes and mods IMHO.

[Robinhood4x4]

I like the sheet metal ones better, too, but once you start doing the calculations you find that tube is lighter and easier to design for the stresses. Filling in the gaps was an idea I had as well, but I couldn't figure out if it would look good or not.

You might find that once you weld up the winch cradle, the gap will close up a little and squeeze the hitch tube, making it hard to put in and take out. I used some card stock on either side of the hitch so I would have a proper gap, but that wasn't enough. However, at this point, I don't remember if I had the winch tube and card stock in the cradle as I welded or not. I had to do a lot of grinding and filing to get the hitch tube to fit again.

If I were you, I'd keep all the tubes the same size, or at least bigger than 1". Personally, I think 1" tube looks funny on a bumper. Looks too amateurish.

[corax]

I was going to use the expanded sheet metal (mesh stuff) as something for the fiberglass to adhere to and sandwich around as well as the general form - that way even if it cracks or gets hit, it won't fall off or dump contents. My issue with welding sheet metal in there is that I've seen how metal can warp sometimes and get all wavy when.

Steve, thanks for the tip about the receiver cradle. I used a pair of old burned up Sawzall blades when I originally tacked it all together. I guess I'll leave them in there along with the receiver tube itself when I stitch weld it all together. The 1" tubes would have only been the upper ones on the fiberglass model - the forward lower and far lower tubes I planned on 1.5" since those be the one that take the brunt of any impact

[Robinhood4x4]

Oh I understand that about the tubes, but I still think it'll look odd. You've got these bit beefy tubes and then these little sticks...just doesn't look right.

[04 Rocko Taco]

My front bumper is 1.75" Which I think looks really amateurish. I think it looks to big. The bracing on my stinger is 1" which looks better.

I would build the bumper from 1.5" and then use 1" sparingly for any braces, like the ones on my stinger.

[corax]

I'm pretty sure I'm going with the tube design using 1.5" HREW schedule 40. The only snag is that my HF pipe bender is at the front of my trailer on the floor . . . the trailer's currently packed up to about eye level, so there's literally half a ton of crap that needs to get moved out to liberate the bender for about an hour's worth of work. :shake: I'd love to find someone local that's willing to bend the tube for me without having to specify the angles of the different bends - in other words, bend a bit, hold it up to the truck, bend a bit more, etc.

So I finished up the center section of my bumper. I decided to angle the inner gussets to help with any side loads I might generate. Luckily, the receiver cradle only tightened up about 1/32" after I was done welding so there was minimal grinding needed (only at the front by the main plate.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/06winchmount.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/07winchmount.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

Looks good.

I hear you on the tube bending. It's so much nicer when you have the tools right there and you can "guess and check".

[corax]

I found a guy on Portland Craigslist advertising that he could bend tube. So I sent him an email asking for an estimate based on my google sketchup photo. He came back with $350-$400 for 10 bends and approx 20' of tube . . . I could buy prebuilt tube bumper for that. Looks like I'll be spending a day digging the bender out of the trailer. So far I'm only $50 into this, with the tube I'm hoping to be right around $100 give or take a bit.

[corax]

So how's this look for a headlight guard model? The main tubes off the winch plate are going to be 1.5" sch 40 pipe which is 1.9" OD. The guards will be smaller 1" sch 40 with an OD of 1.3" The angle back on them should work to lift branches and I don't think I'll regret not having a higher center hoop that way. I'll probably match the overall height of the guards with the front edge of the hood - in sketchup, they look a bit too tall.

(please note the scale and centering is a bit off because the bumper isn't actually "attached" to the truck in google sketchup, just kinda hovering in front of it)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/headlightguard1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/headlightguard2.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

Yeah, the hoops do seem to be a little too tall and I'm not diggin' the lack of a center bar. Are the hoop corners actually going to be bent 90 deg or are they going to be cut and welded like in the picture? Usually bent and cut doesn't look professional.

[corax]

The headlight guards will be bent, just haven't figured out curved lines on sketchup yet (still also getting bitten by drawing on the incorrect axis and having to move stuff around till it looks right). I think the goofy effect of not having a a bigger center hoop will be diminished a bit with lower headlight guards - maybe I'll try to redraw it tonight if I have time

[corax]

Woohoo!! I just got word that the bumper is going to be put to good use at the Wild West Rally (http://wildwestrally.org/) in late September. Pending a meeting with the Sweep Team captain to look over the truck and my equipment, I'll be the newest member (probationary, of course) on NW Rally E-Crew (http://e-crewnw.com/) :clap:

I guess this means I need to start researching my winch options sooner rather than later :D

[DHC6twinotter]

Oh man, it would be awesome to be a part of that . Makes me want to do it now. :D

[Obi..]

So you'll be pulling support, correct? Nice, color me jealous. :D
BTW, seen this (http://www.overlandrally.com/Overland_Rallies_and_Workshops/Southwest.html)?

[corax]

Oh man, it would be awesome to be a part of that . Makes me want to do it now. :D


They're always looking for volunteers at these events. Registration is on http://www.rallydata.com/ and I think there's a rally or two in Tennessee which might not be terribly far for you



BTW, seen this (http://www.overlandrally.com/Overland_Rallies_and_Workshops/Southwest.html)?


Yep, one of the Overland Rallies starts tomorrow not too far from where I'm at. There was a call put out on one of the sites asking for volunteers, but I just don't have the time for it this weekend.

[corax]

I made a little bit of progress on it today. The main bars are bent and tacked into place well enough to transport it into work so I can finish weld them (and heat bend the far passenger side about 1" up to match the other side). Then I'll fab the lower tubes that bolt to the side of the frame and connect with the main tube at the side
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/10firsttubesbent.jpg

BTW, I also figured out a simple solution for the "dimples" that my HF bender leaves in pipe. Here's an example from my old bumper - see the dimples just above the turn signal?
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/08pipedimples.jpg

The fix was simple - I got a threaded pipe nipple big enough to fit over the 1.5" sch 40, cut in in half length wise and placed between the pipe and rollers. Now when I'm bending, the pressure isn't localized and there are no more dimples :D
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/09fixforpipedimples.jpg

[corax]

One more project down and mostly finished - I still want to bend up some headlight guards out of 1" pipe, but that can wait awhile. The white paint is Rustoleum oil based white metal primer, after it dries for a few days it'll get a healthy coat of black oil based paint. And yes, I need to make a stop by Fastenal for some 12mm x 1.25 bolts.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/13finished.jpg

As with any project, it evolved and changed a bit while it was being put together. For example, once I get a winch, removal will have to be from the front - I don't think there's enough space between the top hoop and the grill to lift it straight up, so I had to change the top hoop a bit to make sure there was enough room to slide the winch forward.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/12finished.jpg

I also decided to attach the top hoop to the lower lateral tube instead of the main tube. This allowed me to lean it forward a bit more than if it was welded to the main tube.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/14finished.jpg

I didn't primer the lower half of the lateral tube because I need to heat it up to get the bolt holes at the bottom to line up again. BTW, like the parking light? That was just radiant heat from the tube when I heated it up to fine tune the bend. By the time I saw what was happening it was already too late.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/15finished.jpg

[Crinale]

that looks sick Keith.. i really like the way the bars work together..

[corax]

While I've been a bit busy working on my '85 Celica "nothing pretty" rallycross project, I finally got around to bending up the headlight guards so I thought I'd update this thread. I have one month to get a few more things in order before Olympus Rally (http://www.olympusrally.com/) in Washington state, so the 'runner will be getting a bit of love in the coming weeks

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/headlightguard01.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/bumper/headlightguard02.jpg

[DHC6twinotter]

Looking good, Kieth!

[CJM]

Looks like a happy face lol. Good work!

[4x4mike]

Turned out really well.

Did the bumper warp when you were welding it together?

[corax]

Looks like a happy face lol. Good work!


I was hoping for something closer to a scowl to scare the MPG conscious Prius tards out of my way ;)



Did the bumper warp when you were welding it together?


A little bit, but not terribly so. The biggest surprise was that the plate that mounts against the crossmember actually pulled away at the edges, even with the big winch mounting plate there to prevent it - imagine the "i" is the crossmember and the parentheses is the plate from a top view I( . . it's only about 1/8" at each side though. It helps if you don't drill mounting holes until it's all together.

[corax]

a couple more finished product views, just because I was looking for an excuse to post pics my friend Chris Daley (https://www.facebook.com/Chris.Daley.Photo) took at the Mt Hood Rally

On the way out to Hood River after work on Friday
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/Rally%20Support/52962_291395787628911_1307878132_o1024x683.jpg

at camp, cooking breakfast on the tailgate before heading out for the day
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/Rally%20Support/177239_291395827628907_1265145183_o1024x683.jpg

Stage 3 Fir Mountain, flat towing a Subie with a smoked clutch off stage and back to Service
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk171/batardsalamano/Rally%20Support/277308_291395894295567_387942610_o1024x683.jpg