now SC'd

[paddlenbike]

The 4Runner got some new motivation a couple of weeks ago.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SuWepGhtxO8/TqWBACouHLI/AAAAAAAAGCw/njo7jBE9U7k/s640/IMAG0780.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--rOB09kFoCM/TqrwDn9SzMI/AAAAAAAAGDA/r9wyHM5KRt4/s800/IMAG0313.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nTV2wU9HVe0/TqWBALAW7RI/AAAAAAAAGCs/nibNOsK6AiA/s800/IMAG0783.jpg

The truck feels really torquey and fun to drive. That said, I will be ordering some URD goodies when the wallet cools off to manage the low RPM/high boost spark knock. This is my first supercharged vehicle, I've always had turbos that made no power until 3000 RPMs. This thing will make 6.5 pounds at under 2000 RPMs, so that does create spark knock that should be addressed. This thing is great though, wish I would have done it years ago. Big thanks to Mike and Scott for joining the install party.

[Seanz0rz]

is GREEN from head to toe...


awesome! wish i had the money to do that to mine!

[paddlenbike]

[me=Seanz0rz]

awesome! wish i had the money to do that to mine!


I wish I had the money to do mine too!

[L33T35T Tacoma]

Awesome! how many miles were on it when you installed it?

[DHC6twinotter]

Awesome! I'm jealous. :drool:

I'm curious to see what you do for fuel management. I never liked the 7th injector setup that Toyota offered.

Do you have to run premium fuel now?

[paddlenbike]

There is 113k on the clock. I am running 91 octane for moment but I plan to experiment with 89 octane once I get a chance to install and play with some water/methanol injection. I plan to run the URD 7th, not the TRD one. I am actually looking forward to the tuning aspect. I always enjoyed tinkering with that on my Supra Turbo.

[Obi..]

is GREEN from head to toe...

awesome! wish i had the money to do that to mine!


I wish I had the money to do mine too!


:rofl: Broke down and used a plastic card huh? Just call it an early holiday gift for yourself? :angel:

I'm looking forward to hearing how it plays out for you being in Sac. at almost the same altitude of my upstairs bedrooms (25'). Even better, I'm interested in seeing how it handles a load going up the passes into Tahoe since I'm still debating buying a car versus just sucking it all up and either 3.4 swapping or buying a newer (used) 3rd Gen.

[MTL_4runner]

There is 113k on the clock. I am running 91 octane for moment but I plan to experiment with 89 octane once I get a chance to install and play with some water/methanol injection. I plan to run the URD 7th, not the TRD one. I am actually looking forward to the tuning aspect. I always enjoyed tinkering with that on my Supra Turbo.




Are you looking at using boost pressure or exhaust temp (or both) to control spark knock with your water/meth setup?

[iceman601]

Nice! :thumbup:....clean engine bay too.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--rOB09kFoCM/TqrwDn9SzMI/AAAAAAAAGDA/r9wyHM5KRt4/s800/IMAG0313.jpg
That looks like the lower plenum took some extra elbow grease.

[paddlenbike]

I'm looking forward to hearing how it plays out for you being in Sac. at almost the same altitude of my upstairs bedrooms (25'). Even better, I'm interested in seeing how it handles a load going up the passes into Tahoe since I'm still debating buying a car versus just sucking it all up and either 3.4 swapping or buying a newer (used) 3rd Gen.




So far so good. I towed a trailer today and it felt more powerful with it in tow than it ever did empty with no supercharger.

MTL--I would go with boost activation at something like 3 psi. I like the idea of the intercooling effect.

[MTL_4runner]

MTL--I would go with boost activation at something like 3 psi. I like the idea of the intercooling effect.



I'm looking at using it on my diesel to get some additional intercooling for the turbo and to lower my exhaust temps (in a gas motor you'd see knock, diesels just melt parts :laugh:). When I tow heavy in the summer my exhaust temps skyrocket under load (esp on steep greades) and many have had great luck keeping them in check with a water/meth setup. You can experiment with the sizes of nozzles, triggers (boost pressure, EGT, pedal position, etc) and the water/meth percentage (don't go over 50% methanol though). As long as it's set up right, I think it will work very well for you in this application and often you can pick up more HP and torque in the process because of the intercooling effect. :thumbup:

[4x4mike]

Nice! :thumbup:....clean engine bay too.




I wanted so bad to dirty it up some. I should have brought over so skittles and carmel apples. That reminds me, Ken let me know when you do the meth injection. I'll bring the snacks.

[paddlenbike]

If you guys haven't seen TexasAce's video on what water/methanol does to intake temps, take a look here:
(HD) Texas_Ace 4runner Meth injection Temperature Drop Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6bprXFxN4o#ws)

144 degrees to 77 degrees, and that was without a load and on the outside of the case.

[Obi..]

Cool video. Now, *Having not used any of this stuff and only seen it in use without asking at the time, my concerns are the following...


1. Accidental failure in a part of the system resulting in too much methanol/water, or whatever percentage getting in and basically hydraulically locking a piston up and killing rods, etc.

2. Methanol's effects on older components, rings, seals, etc. When we switched a system from one type of fuel to a different blend (as in California Gas w/ Ethanol versus Oregon and it's better grade fuel~IMHO) rubber seals, vacuum lines, pvc system, and O2 sensor's failed on the three fleet trucks all within a 5 month period. Is this a risk?

3. Too much rapid cooling and how it affects the read and mapping ability of the ECM.

4. How much Toyota would laugh at you if you brought it in for a recall or warranty issue with that on it. *Yes, people who use this are more likely to do their own stuff, but even I've had to deal w/ Toyota America and battle it out for proper refund/credit on something not directly related to an issue, but their excuse had a point.

5. California Emissions versus this. There's always certain, a-hem counties in the state that don't require as many tests as often, but you need to prove residency upon request and are also subject to a "Smog Check Lottery" of sorts, randomly selected people in said counties IIRC get pulled in to Test Only Stations.

6. Why you don't just give me your drivetrain and buy a Toyota 8cyl so two of us get what we want instead of just one. More POWAH!

mad max 1 and 2 ford falcon v8 interceptor scenes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oawspa5EVzs#)

[Obi..]

:D Somehow I see him cooking more than just tires running an Auto and beating on it like this.
(HD) Texas_Ace TRD Supercharged 4runner Street Pulls & Burnout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLnFf0_H8bI#ws)

[Stevo3]

Congrats Peddlenbike. Welcome to the club. I just wish you better luck with the URD mods than Ive had myself. Jamie knows the problems Ive had. And some of them still do stand. My truck has her good days and bad. Just changed my belt this weekend and seeing 8 1/2 - 9 psi put a smile back on my face :).

I was looking into the methanol injection too since Im out in Arizona. But, Id like to stay away from URD.

When you do the mod let us know how it works for you and how easy it is to tune/setup everything.

[paddlenbike]

I would like to know more about the problems you are experiencing. Are they tuning related?

[MTL_4runner]

Nice 4runner burnout video, too bad he's only got one wheel going but still cool. Looks like he's got a bunch of good videos on water/meth injection setup/tuning on the 4runner too. Interesting thing I heard him say was that with the water/meth injection he was able to go back to the stock fuel mapping without any knock issues.


If you're looking for a progressive controller then typically you'll need to run an aquamist/snow/devil's own controller setup ($500-1000), but if you are just looking for a simple tuneable on/off setup you can build one yourself for not alot of money.

You'll need:

PWM Controller (http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=581)
Pump 200+ psi (make sure it's made for methanol use!)
Nozzle (lots of brands, experiment with cc/GPH sizes)
Solenoid (12V and compatible with methanol)
Boost Pressure Switch (adjustable for your psi range)
Nylon Tubing
Tank Float Sensor (not needed if you use the washer fluid tank, sensor on dash)
Tank or washer fluid tank tap (Devil's own)


Methanol is fairly easy to get and mix yourself. Sold under many names including Hydroxymethane, Methyl alcohol, Methyl hydrate, Methyl hydroxide, Methylic alcohol, Methylol, Wood alcohol. You can find it cheap in most paint sections of your local home improvement store. I would suggest only mixing with water that has been distilled or been through reverse osmosis to remove impurities. If you decide to run washer fluid, then stick to the blue stuff and stay away from anything that says "De-icer" on it anywhere.

[Stevo3]

Sorry at work at the moment. Yeah they are pretty much tuning related. I have the URD fuel injector kit that replaces all injectors. And the Split second timing/fuel piggyback ecu. If you go through some of my older posts you can get more info from that than I can probly remember.

[paddlenbike]

I have done that type of tuning and it is not super easy. OBD scantool for closed loop tuning and wideband tuning for open loop, with all of the understanding on what the ECU is trying to do in the background. I plan to run the 7th injector setup, which is a little simpler...fuel enrichment in certain places and some timing changes in others. That said I will probably be on here later looking for guidance.

[DHC6twinotter]

Cool, I'm looking forward to learning something about fuel management and tuning. That's the part that scares me the most with forced induction.

[paddlenbike]

Jamie, thank you for the info. The Devil's Own kit is the one I was looking at. I figure if there is any chance at all of running 89 octane and using the methanol to raise the octane under boost, I will need the progressive kit. I also want to experiment using the -20 grade washer fluid since it is readily available and gives about a 46% methanol blend. If the lower octane fuel thing doesn't work out, I might just run straight water and use it for its intercooling and engine steamcleaning benefits.

[Stevo3]

Is it safe to run liquids through the S/C though? That was my biggest concern. I keep saying to myself Im going to call Magnuson and ask them. But, I always blow it off or forget about it.

[paddlenbike]

Magnuson says spraying fuel, water or methanol through the supercharger helps form a seal between rotors, increasing efficiency.

[Stevo3]

Well then, I can check that one off my list of things to do (eventually) list.

I had a mechanic at my old job location tell me a very inexpensive way to get water in through your intake w/o the injection process. It is what he used to do to his cars back in the day. He would install a line as close to the TB, or somewhere on his carb. Then mount a bottle lower than the TB height. In that line have an adjustable valve of some sort. Fill the bottle with water insert the other end of the hose. Make sure the vavle is closed when you start your car. Then at idle adjust that valve until the vehicle starts to run a little rough and finally back it off just a hair to normal idle.

Im tempted to give it a try. Since on our TB's there is 2 capped off holes on the top of them, it would make this a simple trial deal.

[MTL_4runner]

Magnuson says spraying fuel, water or methanol through the supercharger helps form a seal between rotors, increasing efficiency.


X2

On a roots type blower it's actually very beneficial to the system to be spraying water/meth in there because it increases efficiency for several reasons (better sealing, cools air charge, reduces friction, etc). You never want to spray into a turbo though because relative to a roots blower, the turbo spins at such a high speed the water droplets can actually begin to erode the compressor wheel.....not a pretty sight.

Have a look for yourself:
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/diesel-engines/pre-turbo-compressor-damage-2230.html

[MTL_4runner]

Jamie, thank you for the info. The Devil's Own kit is the one I was looking at. I figure if there is any chance at all of running 89 octane and using the methanol to raise the octane under boost, I will need the progressive kit. I also want to experiment using the -20 grade washer fluid since it is readily available and gives about a 46% methanol blend. If the lower octane fuel thing doesn't work out, I might just run straight water and use it for its intercooling and engine steamcleaning benefits.



Happy to help Ken, hopefully we'll get a Youtube video of your smokeshow later. :D There is an option with the controller I linked to for being able to make it progressive on with pump pressure (it takes a 5V variable input), but I don't think anyone has really looked into that option yet. If you wanted to try it, I would suggest hooking it up to your TPS that way as you vary throttle position, you change the amount/flow of water/meth being injected (boost switch would just tell it when to cut in/out). If you have a digital boost gauge, you could also have it wired to take that input instead. Lots of options anyway.

Here's the add-on that allows you to use it progressively:
http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=678

[Stevo3]

Came home from work and did a little research on the build your own water injection thing. I think I found something to tinker with this weekend.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Stevo - Good to see you still kickin around bud.

[paddlenbike]

Happy to help Ken, hopefully we'll get a Youtube video of your smokeshow later.


Google "MSRP 265/75R16 BFG AT KO, Quantity: 2"
Then write me a check for that amount, mail it and I will send the video. :confused:

[Stevo3]

Havent had time to update on what I tried to do as I explained up above. I did get a chance to try out that home made injection through those 2 extra ports on our throttle bodies and there just wasnt enough suction to get the water to go through. Dont want to cut/drill a hole out in the intake tube so I just scrapped that idea.

Maybe Ill look into the stuff that you guys linked and try that out. Or find a kit on ebay or something.

Still getting ping between 5 and 0 vacuum :(. Not getting ping anywhere else though.

[paddlenbike]

It's pinging pre-boost?

[^VooDoo^]

Fuel Pressure regulator not closing up fast enough?
Does the OBD2 systems use varible speed fuel pumps?, Might be taking to long to bump the line pressure.

Look into a adjustable FPR, One that supports top and bottom end control.

[Stevo3]

Yeah ping pre-boost. Its not doing it now as it is cold ouside for once. But, If I take off the split second ecu it doesnt ping.

I have messed with the timing on the split second in and out within those ranges on the map. Doesnt change. Talked to Gadget a few months ago, and he told me to set those ranges back to 0 for being a stock setting. Still pings.

[paddlenbike]

Are you sure you are writing those changes back to the Split Second ECU? If you're getting pinging in vacuum it would do it whether you had a supercharger or not, which makes me think you either have a carbon build up in the combustion chambers or your timing maps are not being written to the ECU.

[MTL_4runner]

Are you sure you are writing those changes back to the Split Second ECU? If you're getting pinging in vacuum it would do it whether you had a supercharger or not, which makes me think you either have a carbon build up in the combustion chambers or your timing maps are not being written to the ECU.



X2

I agree, sounds like either the changes aren't being made to the ECU (sounds likely since once you take it off, the pinging stops) or you have some heavy carbon buildup (which a water/meth system will clean perfectly for you).

[Stevo3]

Paddlenbike, it stops pinging once I take off the ECU, not the S/C. As for it writing to the maps, yes it is. Gotta also remember Im driving in 110+ degree weather. In cold weather it doesnt ping.