Steering Shimmy..Old topic revisited.

[DSN46]

Hey folks,

I am well aware that there are literally hundreds of threads out on the web discussing the steering wheel shimmy on Runners when doing between 65 and 70 MPH. I have read them all until my eyes bled. :confused:

But since this site has been born, and those who created it have a wealth of knowledge, I thought I would ask just one last time. First off, I have replaced my tires with new Wrangler RTS' (265/75/16) and had them balanced with a Haweka (sp?) attachment for lug-centric wheels. My alignement is within specs. Original struts and there is no play in my tie rods or steering rack at this time.

So.. "Do I, and many others, just have to LIVE with this shimmy at highway speed for the rest of the life of my Runner?" Or is there some answer for this out there that has elluded me? :headscratch:

Thank you for ANY answers you might provide that have not been written already (balance, tie rod ends, etc.)

Sincerly,

James

[Seanz0rz]

youre caster may be out. when i first did my lift, i had an alignment done. well now after a whole lot of offroading and about 2k miles or more, the back end has settled down considerably. which has consequently set my caster out of spec once again. i need to take it in.

i also get vibration during braking, thats warped rotors...

go get an alignment at a shop, watch them do it, get a computer print out, etc. there are many articles around the net about this.

[bamachem]

BEFORE you go get the alignment checked, you should read this, then read it again, then print it off and read it again, then take it with you, and then offer it to the technician, and if you have to, read it to him. :D

http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=321.0

the front end on a 4runner is VERY sensitive to misalignment and balancing issues. sometimes, just having it "in spec" isn't enough. for some, it must be dead-on in the middle of the tolerance band on the specification to stop the vibrations.

[MTL_4runner]

James, maybe you could start by telling us what has been done already so we can see where the possibilities might lie for your issue. There are many things which CAN cause a vibration like you're talking about, but there's a smaller group that are the more likely candidates for a solution. Like Andy said, alignment specs are a range and a fairly sloppy one at that so when a guy goes to do your alignment and gets lazy, as long as they are "within spec" even if they are actually at the far end of the scale, they'll tell you you're good to go. Camber and toe can be especially bad for causing vibration problems and can be hard to diagnose until you start seeing irregular wear on the front tires.

[DSN46]

Thanks for great replies guys! (And for not slamming for bringing this old issue up again :chair: )

To answer your question:
Like I metioned before, the tires were new 4000 miles ago (this problem has been with me since before the new tires and now after). The alignemnt was done at that time and after I felt the shimmy with the new tires, they checked alignment again. I have replaced rotors and pads on front within the last 500 miles (braking is very smooth so I know this is not the problem). I have gotten underneath and visually and physically inspected tie rod ends and steering rack bushings while someone else turned the wheels.
I have no lift yet (coming soon :thumbup: ) and the struts are still original.

After reading all of your replies, I guess I will head back to the alignment rack. I havent read the article posted above yet, but will in just a minute and take it with me to alignment guys when I go.

Oh yeah.. as mentioned above, the tires were balanced using the proper device for lug-centric wheels.

Thanks again, and I will post the specs given to me when I get it aligned again so you can see what's going on.

Sincerely,

James

[gpcollen]

Related question -

Should the cams for adjusting Caster be in relatively same position - for the left and right wheel. Or is they totally independent of one another.

[MTL_4runner]

Related question -

Should the cams for adjusting Caster be in relatively same position - for the left and right wheel. Or is they totally independent of one another.


No, often they are different because some shops will set them up to account for the road crowning.

[MTL_4runner]

Thanks for great replies guys! (And for not slamming for bringing this old issue up again :chair: )

To answer your question:
Like I metioned before, the tires were new 4000 miles ago (this problem has been with me since before the new tires and now after). The alignemnt was done at that time and after I felt the shimmy with the new tires, they checked alignment again. I have replaced rotors and pads on front within the last 500 miles (braking is very smooth so I know this is not the problem). I have gotten underneath and visually and physically inspected tie rod ends and steering rack bushings while someone else turned the wheels.
I have no lift yet (coming soon :thumbup: ) and the struts are still original.

After reading all of your replies, I guess I will head back to the alignment rack. I havent read the article posted above yet, but will in just a minute and take it with me to alignment guys when I go.

Oh yeah.. as mentioned above, the tires were balanced using the proper device for lug-centric wheels.

Thanks again, and I will post the specs given to me when I get it aligned again so you can see what's going on.

Sincerely,

James



James, did this vibration start right after you had a new set of wheels installed on your truck?
Then how many times have the wheels been balanced with the adapter?

If the toe on the alignment is more than 1 degree with large wheels you can have very bad wheel vibrations at highway speed so I'll be curious to see what the printout from the alignment machine actually says as before and after specs. Make sure you tell them you want before and after printouts too, don't assume they will do it automatically (99% of the time they won't). Also if they do perform an alignment, tell them you want toe set between 0-1 degrees. If your front tires have a bad wear pattern, you may need to swap them to the rear to have them wear evenly again.

[Tanto]

Should've gotten a Tacoma :flipoff:

[DSN46]

MTL,

I might have misled you unintentionally. The wheels are original.. its the tires that are new. I had the new tires balanced on a regular balance machine and still had vibration. So I researched and found a place that had the Haweka adapter... still have vibrations :headscratch: . That is why I asked, if after doing all that I thought I could do, will I just have to sigh and live with the shimmy.

Thanks for all your help.

James

PS: I cant get alignment again until next week. I will post up the numbers and report back if any change then.

[DSN46]

Should've gotten a Tacoma :flipoff:


I love this board!

[gpcollen]

Just b/c they used the haweka doesnt necessarily mean that the tires are now balanced properly. Town Fair Tire did mine with the Haweka twice and did not get it right. All they did was throw a bunch of weights on there. Balancing is no big money maker and most of these guys dont give a crap. Check out the Hunter site/machines and find a use the locator for a place near you who has the machine you want or seems to have some expertise in hard to balance wheels.

Good Luck...

http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/balancer/index.htm

[MTL_4runner]

I've had good luck just bringing my tires down to the Toyota dealer to have them balanced and often it is as cheap or cheaper than the specialty tire shops and 99% of the time they'll do it correctly and vibration free. I am still very suspicious if the vibration started right after the new tires were put on.

From the writeup on UY:
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=394.msg2484

"The problem most shops have is that they don't have the proper adapter cone for the Toyota wheels. The lugs on the Toyota wheels are deeply inset with a sharp, close shoulder from the face of the wheel. Most adapter cones will contact that shoulder at the face of the wheel instead of the actual hub. The correct solution would be to use a cone with a smaller diameter and a longer taper to miss the shoulder. Most shops don't have this, and it would be special for just the Toyota wheels. However, a lot of shops do have a lug-centric adapter. Using the lug-centric adapter will alleviate the issue by bypassing the use of the hub all-together."

The Toyota dealers I've seen don't use the haweka adapter since they have the longer tapered cone that fits Toyota wheels. I've had my wheels balanced at the dealer many times and never had a tire related vibration issue.

James, I would have Toyota do both the alignment and a rebalancing of the wheels for you and see if your vibration remains.