Think what you will about this, but if this doesn't scare you then you need to re-evaluate the idea of what freedom is.
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...t-roving-vans/
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Think what you will about this, but if this doesn't scare you then you need to re-evaluate the idea of what freedom is.
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...t-roving-vans/
ya that is a bit scary... i understand the purpose, and i could see them being very valuable in a war situation like over in Iraq/Afghanistan, but i dont like the idea that i could drive past a van and it could search my vehicle without notice or probable cause...
i soppose you have nothing to worry about unless you have bombs or drugs in your car but it certinaly does cross the line.
AS&E seems to be focusing on the fact that there is no privacy issue due to the fact that the van scans don't show much human anatomy detail like the airport scanners do. He fails to mention at all the right to my privacy as concerned with what is inside my home or vehicle. Until an LEO has justified legal reason to search for what is inside my vehicle, then it is still my little secrets, yes criminals can use this to their advantage, but thats how it goes. Innocent until proven guilty. This is a frightening step in the other direction. This is the beginning of a society where we will be presumed guilty until proven innocent. Scan everyone, and then let the ones who pass go free. I'm with David here, if this doesn't scare you ..... then you need to seriously re-evaluate what you consider basic personal liberties and freedoms.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Rocko Taco
Even IF you were completely law abiding and had all your guns/ammo in your vehicle because you were going to the range, and one of these vehicles goes by your vehicle, does anyone think that they'd keep driving if they saw a vehicle full of guns? No, they wouldn't, because they don't know if the guns are legal, or not. Sure you may not get in trouble, but what about the hassle? Can you imagine showing up to your vehicle, or being followed by the cops waiting for a reason to pull you over?
Look, I'm a pretty law abiding citizen, as much as any other normal person. However, to give the government any power to do things like this will lead us down a road that no one wants.
I remember always saying "well, if you don't do anything wrong, then what's to worry about?"
I thought that was a valid argument, but over the years I've realized that it isn't a good argument at all. That's because you have to make the assumption that the government is always going to be on your side, always going to create and administer laws that YOU are ok with. But what happens when laws are created that you don't agree with? Will you roll over, or will you not obey an unjust law? If you choose to not obey the law, then you start to realize your privacy DOES matter and that the 4th amendment was created for these exact reasons. Unreasonable search and seizure is just that, unreasonable. There is no reason the government has any right to search my belongings unless I give them probable cause.
Oly, I'm sitting outside your house now in my new van. :)
hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by paddlenbike
well, you won't be seeing too much, i lined all the inside walls of my house with lead sheets. And I have my new tin foil hat!!! haha
Wow ya I agree that's a little over-the-top. Not only does it seem to go against the 4th amendment, but like Oly said, they have no way of know whether or not what you're carrying is legal! What if an object LOOKS dangerous, but it's not? Are people going to have to prove it? Not only that, but would this kind of evidence even be admissible in court? It's obtained without a warrant, and it is not given up willingly.
And next time I fly, I think I'm going to weave all of my clothes out of lead thread, just in case.
Along these same lines, I was watching "Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell" (not by choice - the only thing ever on is that and Nancy Grace) at work this morning (which was actually last night for those of you not working 3rd shift) and an alleged rape was caught on a convenience store security camera, and thats how they identified and caught the suspect, and this lady calls in. She is touting the greatness of this security camera, and how America, like England needs security cameras everywhere. How "if you are doing nothing wrong then its not a problem" and the more I thought about the faster I saw just how stupid you have to be to believe that argument for very long. I, for one, (and I feel I am not alone here) definitely do not want to live in a world where my every move is seen, and I am always being watched by "Big Brother". I think pretty much the same statements and arguments can be made for and against the implementation of covering the whole country in cameras and this new AS&E Bodyscan technology.
Does it make finding, and catching criminals easier? At least in the short term, yes.
Does it also encroach on one of the most basic freedoms guaranteed us by our constitution? Most definitely.
I feel like the trade off is not worth it. I am not willing to simply give up my freedoms to make it easier to find the criminals. This is the same mindset as creating new gun laws to make it easier to prosecute violent firearm offenders. The answer isn't in new tougher laws. Laws, and I think, this new technology, only serve to keep the honest people honest.
Not to mention that I think these scan-vans WILL have an impact on crime... It's the snowball theory. Crime will evolve.
i.e.- Criminals rob people at knife point, or through sheer physical intimidation, cops get guns. What next? Criminals get guns.
Now Criminals rob people with guns, and shoot cops. What next? Cops get body armor.
Now criminals get armor piercing rounds (denoted "cop killers"). What next? Cops escalate to fully auto tactical weapons such as the AR15, etc.
Now criminals get full auto weapons, and we get the L.A. shootout.
This technology too, will fail to keep pace with the minds of those who wish to do us harm.
Anyone see V for Vendetta with Natalie Portman? This is the first step in that direction. Also an example of where this could be headed is the movie Minority Report with Tom Cruise. Yes they are both extreme examples, but it could definitely happen. Nay, you say? Do you think if you told someone a thousand years ago who was walking everywhere, that when the wheel was invented, that was the first step to an age where there were so many cars to create traffic jams even on MAJOR 12 lane roads? They would have said it was crazy too, but it obviously happens.