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Thread: electric cars catching on?

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by arjan View Post
    A very interesting thread, up here (greater vancouver area) I don't see many electric cars. We have 3 quite dark and rainy months a year. I would imagine the heating, lights and wipers, and cool temperatures would reduce the range a fair bit in the winter.

    I've actually looked at them, but the range has always been my concern.


    Range will be a limiting factor for EV sales as long as the range remains <100 miles as it is today. The fact collectors keep telling us that is all the range we need because we drive less than that on a daily basis. While that may be true, it takes a while to get used to driving a car that essentially starts out with the equivalent of only one-quarter of a tank of fuel. It works great for me because nearly all of my routine driving is within the range of the car, with one exception. My family all lives in the foothills, just over 100 miles away. On those routine trips I would take the Leaf if I could, but need to take the gas car because there is not reliable public charging infrastructure in those mountain towns. So the 150-200 mile range EVs that are apparently hitting the market next year won't be a game-changer for me, but it would broaden the coverage of my routine driving from 98% to 100%. I think many people want a vehicle that is capable of 150% of what the intended use is (isn't that what these 4x4 forums are all about?...making sure our vehicles are overbuilt for the intended use?) So I think that extra range will help EV sales immensely. It still won't work for some people though. For me, it's great because on really long trips we would take the 4Runner anyway.

    Headlights, wipers and even A/C use very little of the battery, but heating is another issue. The 2013+ Leafs use a heat pump rather than a resistance heat heater, which uses 1/2 to 1/3rd of the amount of energy. But in cold climates it does cause a noticeable range hit. That's why Leafs come with heated seats front and rear and heated steering wheels--those are far more efficient than heating the entire cabin. When I turn on the heat in cold weather, the range meter instantly drops a couple of miles. In my California climate this is not an issue, but back east you can loose 20% of your range.

    That converted Porsche is so cool. Love the classic body with futuristic drivetrain.

  2. #102
    Battery tech is getting better everyday. Each lithium ion battery cell is packing more energy density in the same size and weight and meanwhile the cost of each cell is coming down in price. Since the LEAF first came out in 2011, cell density has increased by about 30%. So Nissan just packed the LEAF's old battery case with the new cells, resulting in a 30 kW battery, up from 24 kW. Range is predicted to be 109-110 miles, up from 86 miles. The part that I am excited about--the new battery will work in the older LEAFs like mine, effectively giving lessees like me some serious incentive to buy our own cars out of lease. Putting a new battery in an EV is like getting a whole new car, because there isn't much to wear out and there are virtually no maintenance items on the car.

    This is a stop-gap measure as next year LEAF 2.0 will be unveiled with 150-200 miles of range. The big decision for me, do I buy my own 86 mile car out of lease for $9,200 knowing that when the time comes I can upgrade the battery to a bigger one than it came with, or spend $25,000 on a new model that has 150-200 miles of range? The third option is to walk away, use the $210/month (that I was paying for the lease) to pay for gas (plus some) and add another $100/month for parking since I get a discounted EV rate.

    I am saving $3,000 a year in fuel, so the car would pay for itself in just over 3 years.
    Last edited by paddlenbike; 05-27-2015 at 08:56 AM.

  3. #103
    We have a Leaf at work that I've driven a few times. It's a neat little car. I find the steering wheel shaker/fake starter noise interesting. If I had a longer commute, I would probably consider a Leaf, or maybe one of the other electric cars.
    -Daniel2000 4Runner Sport | V6 | 5spd | 4x4 | Leather | 265/75-16 BFG AT/KO | OBA | BudBuilt front skid

    1990 4Runner SR5 | V6 | Auto | 2wd | 3.90 rear | Cobra CB | 265/65r17 Bridgestone Duelers H/Ts | '08 Tacoma 5 spoke rims | Has an 11:1 crawl ratio! SOLD

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by DHC6twinotter View Post
    We have a Leaf at work that I've driven a few times. It's a neat little car. I find the steering wheel shaker/fake starter noise interesting. If I had a longer commute, I would probably consider a Leaf, or maybe one of the other electric cars.
    Steering wheel shaker and fake starter noise? I have never heard of that.

  5. #105
    Maybe they're trying to copy Harley.
    -------------------------
    Steve
    1993 4runner, SAS, 3.0L, Auto Tranny
    2007 4runner, stock. For now.

  6. #106
    Funny you should mention Harley in the electric car thread.

    I have been looking, VERY casually, at motorcycles for my work commute. I have pretty much decided they are not for me for many reasons. I was wondering about the electric motorcycles and the price is just too high, but they have another HUGE problem. They are silent. In California, where lane splitting is legal (or at least not illegal), the noise is a very important part of a bike's presence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmKcxIVxUA
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  7. #107
    I got the privilege to sit in the older model Tesla Model S,
    I am hooked, I would love to daily one of those, but the 65k price tag just will not cut it -_-
    The newest model is so cool, and I don't know if you all are aware of this or not, its a 7 seat, the rear hatch area has a rumble seat that faces rear ward like the old wagons.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by paddlenbike View Post
    Steering wheel shaker and fake starter noise? I have never heard of that.
    Yeah, for a few seconds after I push the start button, there is a slight vibration in the steering wheel and a clicking noise that sounds a bit like a starter. I assumed they were trying to mimic the sound and feel of a starter, but maybe our Leaf is broke...lol. Maybe there is something wrong with the electric steering (assuming it has electric steering). Now I'll have to investigate further.
    -Daniel2000 4Runner Sport | V6 | 5spd | 4x4 | Leather | 265/75-16 BFG AT/KO | OBA | BudBuilt front skid

    1990 4Runner SR5 | V6 | Auto | 2wd | 3.90 rear | Cobra CB | 265/65r17 Bridgestone Duelers H/Ts | '08 Tacoma 5 spoke rims | Has an 11:1 crawl ratio! SOLD

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanz0rz View Post

    I have been looking, VERY casually, at motorcycles for my work commute. I have pretty much decided they are not for me for many reasons. I was wondering about the electric motorcycles and the price is just too high, but they have another HUGE problem. They are silent. In California, where lane splitting is legal (or at least not illegal), the noise is a very important part of a bike's presence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmKcxIVxUA
    The video that you posted has the exact start up sounds available on my car too. There is no tactic feedback on the steering wheel, but if you put pressure on the steering wheel while you hit the start button, the wheel will tug as the electric power steering kicks in. Our gas-engine Acura has electric power steering and does the same thing. Maybe that's what you felt Dan?

    Sean, your lane-splitting concerns are very real. I always hear the bikes before I see them, so lane-splitting on a silent bike could be dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by yotafun
    I got the privilege to sit in the older model Tesla Model S,
    I am hooked, I would love to daily one of those, but the 65k price tag just will not cut it -_-
    The newest model is so cool, and I don't know if you all are aware of this or not, its a 7 seat, the rear hatch area has a rumble seat that faces rear ward like the old wagons.
    Too much coin for a car, but Teslas are very nice. The 2nd gen Chevy Volt is coming out in a couple of months. LG Chem, who makes the batteries for the Volt, stated that the 2016 battery is 40% more dense (in the same packaging) and costs half what it did in 2011. 2017-2018 will bring some very exciting EVs.

    I did some quick math the other day. If I walk away from my LEAF lease and drive the 4Runner to work, I'm looking at spending $150 more per month than I pay for all LEAF-related expenses including the lease, insurance, license and electricity. I get 1/2 off parking downtown for having an EV, so that is part of the equation. Not factored here are oil changes, tune ups (belts, hoses, fluid changes), etc. on the 4Runner; parts that the LEAF doesn't even have.

  10. #110
    The company Leaf doesn't have any of those start up sounds, but there are a few click sounds right after I push start. Could be some relays too, maybe. If the Leaf is available tomorrow, I'll see if I can have a closer look.


    I'm excited about the Tesla 3. They're saying it could be under 30 grand with the rebates, plus a 200 mile range. That could be a game changer. I would be super tempted to get one if I had a longer commute.
    -Daniel2000 4Runner Sport | V6 | 5spd | 4x4 | Leather | 265/75-16 BFG AT/KO | OBA | BudBuilt front skid

    1990 4Runner SR5 | V6 | Auto | 2wd | 3.90 rear | Cobra CB | 265/65r17 Bridgestone Duelers H/Ts | '08 Tacoma 5 spoke rims | Has an 11:1 crawl ratio! SOLD

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