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Thread: MPG woes

  1. #1

    MPG woes

    So I have a 2.7 4x4 4runner and my mpgs are a little on the low side. Its kind of a wallowing pig in mud compared to the 3.4 anyway but on to my thoughts.

    My tires measure 31.9in so those are well over the stock 30?(not sure but I have a base model). They also stick out from the side of the truck 1.5in so that doesn't help either.

    I found the bigger problem tonight when I checked my valves. The picture tells all bit intakes are supposed to be .006-.010 and exhausts are .010-.014. Here are mine.


    So x's cost me money.

    I don't think I have toasted any valves but is there a way to tell? The valve cover had some toasted oil near cyl #4 but everything else is a nice golden brown. I will have pics tomorrow.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
    98 3rz 4x4 5spd- Monstalined, 99 Talls, 4.30 E-locker, Extra Lights
    In Progress:
    Tundra/Rear Disc Brakes w/parking brake
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  2. #2
    Here are the pics from the engine and valve cover.

    Also having a bear of a time removing these shims. I have the tool needed but I am having first time troubles. Apparently the 3rz uses the same shims as the 5vz so anyone have any tips?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
    98 3rz 4x4 5spd- Monstalined, 99 Talls, 4.30 E-locker, Extra Lights
    In Progress:
    Tundra/Rear Disc Brakes w/parking brake
    Roof Rack/Rear Ladder
    Sliders
    1st Gen Rollbar Shelf

  3. #3
    Hopefully Yotafun will chime in. I don't know much about engine internals, especially the specifics of these engines.

    Avy, can you help?
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  4. #4
    Well there is more good news and bad news.

    The good news is that I while I am out of spec I can still correct it. I also found a nifty excel sheet that did all of the math for me. I took a look at all of the equations and they seem legit. Later today after my back feels better I will do the math manually.

    Findings: (intake spec-.005-.010 and exhaust spec. 010-.014)

    I11-.007
    I12-.007
    E11-.004 .1135
    E12-.007 .1125

    I21-.008
    I22-.008
    E21-.005 .1155
    E22-.006 .1140

    I31-.008
    I32-.008
    E31-.005 .1135
    E32-.007 .1125

    I41-.006 .1120
    I42-.005 .1120
    E41-.007 .1155
    E42-.006 .1155

    So for calculations the equation looks like this N=T + (A-V):
    N= New Shim size
    T= Old Shim size
    A= Measured Valve Clearance
    V= Desired Valve Clearance

    I ended up needing 1x #4, 4x #5, 4x #6, and 1x #7.

    The shims that were bad were all exhaust and one intake. Hopefully the #4 valves are not toast. I do not have any of the indicators of that besides the toasted oil stuck to the bottom of the valve cover.

    The bad news is that what I have discovered from my research is that I will probably have to rebuild the head if I keep this thing on the road for another 400k :-P. As the valve wears against the seat it needs less and less of a shim to operate correctly. So when you have all your calculations done there will be numbers for your shim. Lower numbers mean start saving for rebuilding your head and getting a new valvetrain. I glanced at the prices on LCE and this stuff will tingle a bit. It would almost be cheaper to just order one of their performance engines.

    So here are my tips for valve clearance checks and shim removal.

    #1 You are going tp get filthy and keeping your hands clean will be important. Make sure you have rags

    #2 My biggest problem was not being patient. The shims will be suction stuck in the shim buckets. When you have everything set up and you are using a small flathead to pop the shim give it a few seconds or ten.

    #3 Have a strong skinny magnet available. After you pop the shim using your screwdriver the book says tweezers or pliers. There might be room for this on a bench but on the 2.7 and I imagine even less room on the 3.4 a strong magnet will help immensely. I was also using a dental scraper (I use it for getting heavy carbon out of delicate areas when cleaning weapons). It helped but be very careful. If the valve prop fails that valve spring has quite a bit of pressure behind it and will break the scraper. Then you are trying to find a tiny piece of metal in an oily mess.

    #4 Best not to do it during a block party or kids birthday party. Even with the right tools this is a royal pita and you should swear. Its theraputic for the Toyota.

    #5 this is a gimme but write down everything. Make sure to organize it so that you can write it down clearly. Your piece of paper is going to get fubar'd.

    #6 I didn't realize that when you remove the shim the cam will rotate in but not rotate out of the shim bucket. Probably best to measure the shim and record it and then slide it back into position if you do not have shims available on scene. I did not do this and I am sure I will pay dearly for this.

    #7 Keep your shims! It might be that after doing the math you can swap shims within your engine to make it all work. These puppies are 9 bucks apiece after shipping. Lucky I only have 16.

    #8 Position the tool around the cam shaft farthest away from the bearing. Rotate to depress the valve spring towards the interior of the engine. The other little tool is a prop and I put it right by the bearing as the cam is just a tiny bit thicker there and will help you get the shim out. It takes practice to put the prop on the shim bucket edge but after getting the first one it isn't too bad.

    #9 the rearmost valve springs are simply a pain. It took me an hour to get two shims out on the backside. There is no room to play with and you are performing by feel alone. Just leave them for last or after you have the hang of it.

    #10 Another gimme but take a look at the spark plug seals, valve cover seals, and the little grommit seals that go on the bolts. It might be time to replace those.

    I think that about covers it. I learned a lot yesterday. Battlewagonactual missed all of it but that's ok. His clutch is slipping quite badly. We might take a look at his valves next and I will make sure to take pictures.



    stamped and snail mailed
    98 3rz 4x4 5spd- Monstalined, 99 Talls, 4.30 E-locker, Extra Lights
    In Progress:
    Tundra/Rear Disc Brakes w/parking brake
    Roof Rack/Rear Ladder
    Sliders
    1st Gen Rollbar Shelf

  5. #5
    Nice tech and good info, keep us updated on the results.
    -Chris
    2004 DoubleCab Tacoma PreRunner: 3.4 V6-Auto, DD/Tow Rig
    1997 Lexus LX450: 4.5 I6-Auto, DD
    1984 4Runner: 22R-5 speed, 14 inch bob, 5.29's, lincoln locked rear, lockright front, Armored and Caged by Mossyrocks Fabrication, total disregard for body damage.
    1997 4Runner: GONE
    1996 FZJ80 Land Cruiser: GONE

  6. #6
    Will do. I am waiting on parts currently but they should arrive by Friday. Wife has got me booked for most of the weekend but I will try to get her put back together before next week.

    stamped and snail mailed
    98 3rz 4x4 5spd- Monstalined, 99 Talls, 4.30 E-locker, Extra Lights
    In Progress:
    Tundra/Rear Disc Brakes w/parking brake
    Roof Rack/Rear Ladder
    Sliders
    1st Gen Rollbar Shelf

  7. #7
    I've got shims and the main part of the gasket in today. I should have the seals for the bolts in. Sadly I'm headed to long beach tomorrow evening and tonight was taken up with constructing a baby bouncer lol. In other news I also received my Monstaliner chip set!! I'm trying to find a color that goes well with the green metallic like color.

  8. #8

    Cool

    OK all good news today. Everything is back in place and my little 2.7 purrs quite well now and the throttle response definitely feels better. I have to push less on the gas pedal to make speed and that is definitely an improvement. She was feeling a little sluggish before. While waiting for time to do the valve shims I ran into a thread over on TTORA that directly addressed my 2.7L which helps. Apparently 240k maintenance pretty much sums up what I have done recently plus a few things like main cyl flush, slave flush, and radiator flush. I also should probably replace the fuel filter.

    Anyway on to the main point. Finishing the valves. The first pic is how I was lining up the tools to remove and in addition it helps to do it this way when installing shims as well because the edge of the bucket lines up with the bearing support wall. BTW I don't have three hands...my wife is helping by taking pictures lol.

    **Final Tip**
    If you do like I did and remove all the shims that need replacement be very careful to either A: make sure the cam lobes do NOT rotate into the buckets or B: You devise a way to depress the buckets to where you can rotate the lobes out of the buckets.

    My version of B was to use two flat head screwdrivers and slide them in where the valve spring prop would go on each valve for the cyl you are working with. With a little force the valve bucket will depress allowing the cam to rotate out. Since I didn't have three hands and my wife gave me the long look when I asked for help BattleWagonActual came over and rotated the engine for me. So if you are by yourself some fancy foot action and or genetic manipulation (growing another arm and hand) might be required.



    For the most part I had no trouble at all getting the shims in however I did have to position the shim to where it nearly fits and then release the valve bucket as gently as possible and then push the shim into place. Then the valve spring did the rest of the work for me.

    At the very end I used carb cleaner and a rag to clean off the top of the head and the bottom of the valve cover so that the new seals would seat nicely and cleanly. At the front where the metal half moons are I put a little bit of RTV high temp to ensure that no oil would squeak through.



    This just shows the tools I was working with for the most part. The top two pieces are from LC Engineering and made especially for the Toyota Valves with bucket under shim so I am pretty sure they could be used for the 5vz. Cost isn't too bad but I think they were 50 bucks. Considering that my shims ran 90 bucks and the dealership would have started at 500 bucks....we are still in the positive lol.


    When I get back this weekend I will check for oil leaks and such with a final report. Much to my dismay my 22r is screaming for attention with a timing belt job

    Also if anyone is interested attached is the excel spreadsheet that did the calculations for me so download and make your life easier. I believe that this could also be very easily modified to accommodate the 5vz.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #9
    Great tech here, thanks for the post!

    Also, glad you got it back in one piece. Every time I take apart the truck I end up with more pieces than I started with!
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  10. #10
    Thanks!! I could have sworn I said timing chain for the 22r but I must have been cross eyed or something lol.

    I have not put the skid plate on yet so there is still the possibility of having extra parts....especially if some savage or bud builts showed up at my door magically lol. I did have lots of pieces that were replaced. I am not sure what to do with the shims honestly. If they are that expensive then maybe someone could use the sizes that I have.

    I will report back on the mpg and other items of interest. I am planning seafoam for the crankcase and the gas tank to help clean everything out, flushing the brake system, flushing the clutch line, replacing the fuel filter, flushing the radiator, and I need to do drum shoes (although I would much rather convert to disc, but the money tree lost a couple of branches)


    stamped and snail mailed
    Last edited by Kryptoroxx; 01-19-2014 at 05:47 AM.
    98 3rz 4x4 5spd- Monstalined, 99 Talls, 4.30 E-locker, Extra Lights
    In Progress:
    Tundra/Rear Disc Brakes w/parking brake
    Roof Rack/Rear Ladder
    Sliders
    1st Gen Rollbar Shelf

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