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Thread: Help me solve my awful vibration!

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  1. #1

    Help me solve my awful vibration!

    So, as discussed in a few other threads, I have a horrible vibration in the truck at 40mph+. It feels like a front end vibration, as it comes through the steering wheel quite badly. The vibration period is sinusoidal; about 40 seconds of vibration, increasing to a max then decreasing to 20 seconds of no vibration.

    Here is where I am at as of now:

    It doesn't feel like an out of balance tire: I did the airsoft mod, and can feel when they are not working, feels like an egg for a tire, this is not the same vibration I'm complaining about.

    Welded the steering column, and it solved most of the clunking in the column. Still need to shim the ball, but it is not bad except for when the vibration happens

    Bushings (control arms and steering rack), ball joints were replaced in 08? They feel good, but will recheck soon.

    Wheel bearings replaced in 09 or 10

    No front sway bar

    Inner and outer tie rod ends replaced ~1 year ago and did not help.

    Alignment is incorrect on left side. Will correct next week.

    Nothing appears to be bent, cracked, loose, etc. It will get a complete check soon.



    Here is my short list of what I think it might be:
    Bad tire/wheel
    The aforementioned bad alignment
    Steering rack bushings
    Steering rack
    Worn out control arm bushing or balljoint
    Cracked frame
    Out of balance half shaft

    Plans:
    Fix bad alignment
    Rotate front tires to rear
    check everything else for play, wear, etc.


    Tires were replaced 2 years ago. I have had this vibration longer than the tires. In fact, I can't remember a time when I didn't have it, but I know it wasn't always there.

    I'll try to get some video of the vibration too.
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  2. #2
    Steering Rack has my vote since it seems like it increases for a time and then goes away. Sounds like the slow swaying of your truck from side to side in the steering and one (or both) sides cause vibration. This could also be amplified by bad alignment which would help pull your truck one way or another....and then cause the power steering to work more?

    Kinda feels like left field but it's a theory.

  3. #3
    Possible. I didn't feel any play on the rack last I checked.
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanz0rz View Post
    The vibration period is sinusoidal; about 40 seconds of vibration, increasing to a max then decreasing to 20 seconds of no vibration.
    So there's a beat frequency on top of the vibration you're feeling? That means there is more than one frequency superimposing themselves, meaning there is more than one source. The beat period is long at about 1 minute which also means the two sources are close in frequency.

    You had the vibration before the BB's, but were you getting the beating before you did the BBs?
    -------------------------
    Steve
    1993 4runner, SAS, 3.0L, Auto Tranny
    2007 4runner, stock. For now.

  5. #5
    I'm not sure if it did before or not. Years ago I decided I would live with it, but it's getting worse and starting to irritate me. While my dad was riding along, he was pretty shocked it was that bad, but that trip is the worst its been. The last trip we did was about 27 miles one way, and wasn't as bad with a less full truck, just my wife, me, and the tools.

    The harmonics are strange. Makes me think wheel bearing or something like that. Its definitely a spinning part vibrating and being transmitted through the wheel. Don't have it at slow speeds. Also, rough roads make it better. I know the dynamic balancing requires rough road to evenly distribute the media, but again, it doesn't feel like a tire balance issue, almost like the frequency is too high for the speed the tire is going

    Hopefully some of that made sense, typing on a tablet sucks.
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  6. #6
    What tires are you running? size? How many miles are on them?

    I'll probably get flamed for this, but I strongly disagree with the BBs. Any time you have a moving object inside a tire, centrifugal force will push that weight to the physically accessible outermost region. Centripetal force (the tire) will hold it there. Who is to say that point is exactly where the tire's imbalance is? Additionally, who's the say the weight of the BBS are the exact amount of weight needed to counteract the imbalance in the tire and wheel.

    I've worked in my tire shop for 10 years and I've seen a lot of imbalanced tires. Are your tires currently balanced by a professional? If they were, I'd bet money that the tire tech finally gave up because the BBs kept throwing off his machine. I've had it happen at my shop many times before... a tire had fix-a-flat in it (which would behave the same as a round BB) and it was impossible to balance because every time the machine spun the water settled in a different location. How many different locations are wheel weights placed on your wheels? One? Two? Three? If only one, they balanced your wheels using the static function. The static method is pretty terrible and only corrects side to side shimmy OR wheel hop. If there are wheel weights in two locations on two separate planes, then the wheels are balanced dynamically, which is supposed to correct both side to side shimmy and wheel hop. The BBs, if the concept actually was working, will only fix the wheel hop. This is the imbalance that a driver feels most frequently. The side to side shimmy is also a problem, but the BBs wouldn't do anything for this.

    Additionally, ANY sort of uneven wear will cause road noise and vibration in which no balance method could possibly fix.

    Now... you mentioned the phasing of the vibration. In the world of physics, as applied to sound waves, this is known as beats but has the same principles. I copied this from a physics essay I wrote about a year ago

    Beats occurs when two tones of slightly different frequencies are heard simultaneously and periodic increases and decreases in the loudness is heard. This is because there are periods of constructive interference and destructive interference.
    Obviously it is rotational, so I would probably guess it's a half-shaft imbalance phasing with your tire imbalance. As mentioned by a previous poster, the frequencies are slightly different so you are experiencing phases of vibration similar to sound wave "beats." Here's something fun you could try... Rotate your tires 180 degrees on the hub. This will place any potential immobile vibration in the tire 180 degrees from the current half-shaft vibration. See if the phasing and overall vibration changes. If it does, move it 60 (we can't do 90 because of 6 lug nuts not being square), and see if this changes anything, better or worse. Try it again for another 60. Trial and error, see if this changes anything. Do it for all locations, starting with the front. Find the best of the best if it is having any effect.

    Have you tried putting a set of OEM size street tires on OEM wheels in order to eliminate the tire variable?
    2012 Tacoma 4x4 6spd TRD, e-locker, LT265/75R16E Michelin LTX A/T2s, Stubbs HD-SKOs
    2003 Taco-was K.I.A. 4/31/12-RIP

  7. #7
    I know you are skeptical of the BB's. They are obviously selling a product, but they explain how it works pretty well: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.php

    The vibration was present immediately after a balance by a reputable shop, before the insertion of the BB's. It's pretty much been there all the time, even with new tires. Which leads me to suspect the wheel or some other part, and not the tire.

    At the time I changed my bushings, the truck felt great for 50-100 miles. Then the vibration started again.

    Prior to their removal (by me and by rocks) the wheel weights were only on the inside rim, not the outside.

    Tires are 285/75r16 BFG AT. These tires are 2 years old (almost to the day), but the vibration was present before the new tires went on, and came back almost immediately after new tires.

    I don't have a set of OEM tires and wheels to swap on, but I will work on tracking a set down to try.

    I'll try the clocking of the wheel, and see if it improves.

    I think I will attach my gopro to the fender and film the tires, see if I can get any clue from that.
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  8. #8
    I don't think it's the half shafts because they're just too small in diameter to cause much vibration plus I don't think you'd feel it through the steering wheel.

    Here's a shot in the dark but might be worth a try. There are some apps that record vibration like iseismometer and seismometer and sends the data as a csv. If you can get some good data you can find the frequency of the vibration which might point you toward the source. For example, if it's a once per rev of the tire, then you can rule out the drive shaft. If it's not a once per rev of the tire, you can rule out the tires and CV's. Send me the data and I can take a look.
    -------------------------
    Steve
    1993 4runner, SAS, 3.0L, Auto Tranny
    2007 4runner, stock. For now.

  9. #9
    Haven't driven much to be able to report back with video, etc.

    More details:
    Gets worse when I take my foot off the gas. For a moment anyway.

    Oscillation is much much less with nothing in the truck

    Could bad u joints cause this? I'm thinking of replacing them anyway when I have the rear axle out

    Also have some clunking towards the rear axle when turning.
    2005 Lexus LX470 - Stock for now...

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 4x4 + a bunch of goodies. Lifted, Locked, Illuminated and Armored. Winner,"Best Offroad Truck" - 2010 Pismo Jamboree. It's been upside down and still drives me to work.

  10. #10
    I'm wondering if it could be rear link bushings? They'll ride in different positions depending on the amount of gear you have in the back. They also put up with holding and axle that has rotational forces from the drive shaft.

    Why are you taking the rear axle out? If so check the link mounts, perhaps one could be bent or cracked.

    Does it still feel like a front end vibration? Or has it moved?

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