Toyota future drivetrain speculation thread

[DHC6twinotter]

Hey all,

I always like speculating about future Toyota possibilities, and I thought I'd post up this thread for any rumors or speculation.

Strong rumors so far:

Tundra:
-Due next year with a 3.5 TT V6 from the Lexus LS.
-Lots of talk about a hybrid option with the 3.5 TT V6.
-4 link coil sprung rear suspension.
-Looks like the 6.5' bed will be available with either a crew and/or crew max cab (yay!)

Land Cruiser:
-Due next year with a 3.5 TT V6 from Lexus LS
-Lots of talk about a hybrid option with the 3.5 TT V6
-Rumors have been back and forth about whether or not North America will see a new Land Cruiser.

4Runner and Sequoia due in 2023. Tacoma later, probably 2024 or 2025. No info on drivetrains.

My own speculation:

3.3L Diesel:
Rumors are Toyota is working on a new 3.3L V6 diesel. Most of the rumors point to this being a replacement for the 4.5L diesel V8, but I'm not sure I'm sold on that. I would not be surprised if this engine made it to the Tundra and 300 series Land Cruiser. In some markets, the Prado could also have this motor as a higher output option to the existing 2.8 I4 diesel. If the Prado does get this motor, perhaps Toyota could also offer it in the 6th gen 4Runner?

3.5L twin turbo V6:
It's pretty much all but confirmed that the next Tundra and Land Cruiser will have this engine as an option. I also wouldn't be surprised if the 6th gen 4Runner and 4th gen Tacoma get this motor in the TRD Pro (GR?) trim levels. The Sequoia and GX (if there is another one) would also offer this engine.

4.0 twin turbo V8
There have been rumors of Toyota working on a TT 4.0 V8 for the Lexus devision. If this is true, I'd like to see this motor in a GR Tundra to compete with the Raptor and TRX.

5.0 NA V8
There have been no rumors of a 5.0 V8, but I could see a potential naturally aspirated 5.0 V8 as a derivative of the TT 4.0 V8 for use in the Tundra. I think the Tundra really needs a NA V8 to compete with GM, Ford and RAM. A NA V8 could also be an option in the Land Cruiser, Sequoia, and LX. Rumors were that the 4.0 would share components with the new 2.0L dynamic force 4 cylinders engines, so perhaps a 5.0 V8 could share some components with the 2.5L dynamic force engines?

3.5 NA V6
I haven't heard a single rumor of a new V6, but I find it odd that the new Sienna has no V6 option. It's solely a hybrid 4 cylinder. I tend to think Toyota still needs a NA V6 for the Sienna, 4Runner, Highlander, Tacoma, RX, and maybe the larger Lexus/Toyota sedans. The GR motors are close to 20 years old, and while they are great motors, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota is working on a replacement. Maybe this could be a NA version of the TT V6 found in the LS?

In short, I could see Toyota's future V6 and V8 engine lineup consolidated to the following:
-3.3L turbo diesel V6.
-3.5L twin turbo V6.
-3.5L naturally aspirated V6.
-4.0L twin turbo V8.
-5.0L naturally aspirated V8.

Just my $.02.

[DHC6twinotter]

And since this is a predominately 4Runner forum, here's what I could see for the 6th gen 4Runner:

SR5
-3.5L NA V6
-3.5L NA V6 Hybrid

Limited
-3.5L NA V6
-3.5L NA V6 Hybrid

Offroad
-3.5L NA V6
-3.5L NA V6 Hybrid
-3.3L turbo diesel V6 with optional manual tranny

GR (Replaces TRD-Pro)
-3.5L TT V6

There's probably a lot of wishing on my part there, but I tend to think that would make a pretty sweet lineup. A 3.3L diesel for the overlanding crowd, and TT V6 for the desert racing crowd. Then the Tacoma can follow with a similar option setup.

[paddlenbike]

I'd be a little surprised if there wasn't a turbo-4 option in there somewhere. The new full-size Silverado has one, the Wrangler, and heck even Porsche replaced their amazing 2.7 and 3.4L flat-6s with turbo-4s. (A new 4 cylinder 718 Cayman outperforms a flat-6 781 Cayman in every metric but the engine sound.) Toyota already has a 2.0 turbo 4 in the lineup used in the IS and NX line. Such an engine would help Toyota meet their CAFE standards and provide power and torque to meet the competition. A twin turbo V6 would really wake up the Toyota lineup. I think boosted power plants would help Toyota overcome it's long-standing underpowered reputation.

I have sort of lost hope in the brand when it comes to trucks/SUVs. They don't perform that well, don't get good mileage (it should at least have one of those), and the fun-to-drive factor just isn't there. I will put an exception in there, the 381 hp 5.7L Sequoias/Tundras do have satisfying power. At a minimum Toyota would have to do one of the following to get me out of my 4Runner:
- offer a diesel powertrain that can get the kind of mileage I get in my Sprinter van. I just went from Sac to Salt Point (north of Bodega Bay), 320 miles and got 27.2 MPG. It weighs 8,000 lbs and is over 9-feet tall. An SUV with a similar powertrain should get 30 MPG easy.
- offer more manual transmission options. I can easily say my SC 3.4 manual is more fun than any other SUV I've driven.
- Toyota--make a decent automatic, yours are so slushy and boring!!! 5-speed automatics in 2020? My parcel delivery van has had a 7-speed since 2014.

I think Toyota is doing a good job lately of listening to the customers and the market and I applaud their factory suspension options, available locker, crawl control, etc. They just need to fire all of their powertrain engineers and make something decent for once. The same company that made 2JZ-GTE twin turbo Supras is now turning to BMW to make engines for them (the new Supra). Come on.

[DHC6twinotter]

Your supercharger posts always make me want to add a supercharger to my 4Runner. Ha!

Turbo 4 might be a possibility. I hadn't thought of that. The Ranger and Bronco have a turbo 4 option as well. The AR engines have been out for 12 years now, and we are seeing the replacement now in the form of the M25A/B and A20A. I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota is working on some new turbo 4s for their sedans, and maybe we'll get a turbo 4 in the SUVs as well. A turbo 4 hybrid might not be terrible.

I remember when the 2nd gen Tundra came out in 2007, and the specs looked awesome. I don't think anybody else was offering a V8 with nearly 400hp. Now, everybody has caught up. That seems to be the cycle with Toyota, and maybe that's part of the secret to their longevity. They develop a fantastic, reliable powertrain that is better than everybody else's, then they use that same powertrain for so long that everybody else catches up and surpasses it (maybe not in reliability though). Then, Toyota releases the next revolutionary powertrain, and the whole cycle continues.

I agree though, some of Toyota's truck lineup is getting old. I'm not sure why the Tundra doesn't have an 8 speed in it. The Land Cruiser has an 8 speed behind the 5.7, and that would've been nice in the Tundra. Toyota also made the A760 6 speed auto, which they used behind the 4.6 V8 in the GX, and I think the Tundra too. I never understood why Toyota did not put the 6 speed in the 4Runner back when they did the 2014 facelift.

As far as the 4Runner goes, the next one better be good. If the next 4Runner ends up being a dud, I may end up considering a Bronco, or, maybe, a V8 Jeep. I do really, really like the 200 series Land Cruisers though, so who knows, maybe I'll end up in a used one of those some day.

And I agree, the BMW Supra was dumb. They should've built it on the TNGA platform and used the V35A engine from the LS in it. From what I gather, that engine has way more potential than the 416hp or so that it currently puts out.

[Kryptoroxx]

If they dusted off the 3rz and 2tr and added a turbo they would perform well in every metric except fuel economy. Adding boost to them is a lot of fun but sadly the mpg doesn't add up. I'm sure toyots could fix that. They certainly know how to build a boosted engine but I am fairly certain they will pull it off.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[paddlenbike]

Your supercharger posts always make me want to add a supercharger to my 4Runner. Ha!

Dan, the supercharger is SO worth the money. Here's some 0-60 numbers for you:
Stock 3rd gen - 9.2 seconds to 60 MPH source
4th Gen V8 - 7.9 seconds source
5th Gen - 7.9 seconds source
Supercharged 3rd gen - 6.4 seconds source

0-60 doesn't tell half the story. An SC'd 3rd gen just absolutely flies up the grades at high elevation. While acceleration is great, it's really the passing power and mountain climbing that are most impressive.

I am not in the market for a vehicle, but if I were buying today it would likely be a Bronco with a manual. By comparison an automatic 4Runner would put me to sleep behind the wheel. I'm only interested in vehicles that offer a fun experience.

[DHC6twinotter]

Dan, the supercharger is SO worth the money. Here's some 0-60 numbers for you:
Stock 3rd gen - 9.2 seconds to 60 MPH source
4th Gen V8 - 7.9 seconds source
5th Gen - 7.9 seconds source
Supercharged 3rd gen - 6.4 seconds source


0-60 doesn't tell half the story. An SC'd 3rd gen just absolutely flies up the grades at high elevation. While acceleration is great, it's really the passing power and mountain climbing that are most impressive.

I am not in the market for a vehicle, but if I were buying today it would likely be a Bronco with a manual. By comparison an automatic 4Runner would put me to sleep behind the wheel. I'm only interested in vehicles that offer a fun experience.

Those supercharger numbers are impressive! If I found a good deal on one, I'd be pretty tempted to throw one on.

The new Bronco looks fantastic. If Ford ever offered the 7spd manual with the TT V6, I might be really tempted to buy one. Ford put a lot of thought into the Bronco, and it shows. The next 4Runner needs to be really, really good.

[fenrisx]

The 3.5l does seem like a safe bet for the 6th gen 4Runner, which would be disappointing. Just from a power to weight perspective, it would be nice to see something with a little more power. There's definitely a lot more competition out there for the 4Runner, hopefully that helps with the push for more power and efficiency. (Granted competition hasn't seemed to hurt their sales numbers just yet.)

Also add me to the list of those who wish they had got a supercharger on their 3.4l.

[Crinale]

I don't see Toyota doing anything particularly "fun" or "exciting" with the 6th gen 4Runner engine and transmission. They have seemed content to allow the 4runner to fall into the boring but utilitarian side of family vehicle with some off-road capability. I see the 3.5 and 6 speed from the Taco being added, which will likely be massively overgeared just like the Taco is currently where 6th gear is useless if you upsize tires over the stock 30" (With 33s I never see 6th unless I'm going downhill).

The 2GR can really be woken up with gears and an OV tune though, I just got the tune and it made my truck more fun to drive. Now I can't wait to get gears as it should really wake up the sleepy feel; it also fixes nearly every issue with the AC60 transmission. And if you want power, the magnussen S/C brings the 3.5 power level up to similar to stock 5.7 numbers.

As for the fullsize vehicles, definitely a turbo/TT 3.5, I don't see the 3.3 diesel coming to the US, and I would not be surprised to see some variation of hybrid drivetrain (whether I4 or V6) for the Limited models. I'd like to see an NA v8, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

As long as we're speculating, I hope Toyota has a team watching the Bronco launch intently, because that truck is what the FJ Cruiser should have been: removeable top, front and rear lockers, 35" tires, solid drivetrains, massive option catalog, and immediate aftermarket support.

[paddlenbike]

Here's my driveline speculation:

Ken's going to buy one of these:


and put this under the hood:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28412438026...QaAl35EALw_wcB

I won't buy another 13-18 MPG gas SUV with 300 miles of range and yawn-inspiring performance.

Come on Toyota, step up.