O boy Obama

[Bob98SR5]

yes, i find it incredulous that obama did not know his minister's views on issues. i can't recall where i read it, but obama's most recent book's title was taken from one of said minister's sermons.

well, whatever. personally, id sure like to hear concrete plans from mr. obama---im still undecided as i dont like mccain too much either. if obama can articulate in concrete terms his plans for the war on terror (pulling troops out of iraq is NOT a plan), immigration, how he intends to keep the economy going, etc instead of this incessant motherf'g b.s "CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE" speeches, platitudes and MLK-esque crap, i'll listen and i may consider voting for him.

chuck: you wanna help me here?

[ecchamberlin]

Yeah I hear you guys. I am still undecided also. I would never vote for a Clinton(and not because she is a she) but still researching Obama and McCain.

[calrockx]

you've heard what i've heard, bob. from his speeches, to what i've read on his website, he's laid enough groundwork for me to support his stances on issues and support him as a candidate.

i admit tho, he's not perfect. and i even agree with some things clinton and mccain say, but still...obama is my guy for this election.

slam the "change" talk all you want, but besides being seemingly sincere in that commitment (yeah, a politician, i know), it's what americans want to hear and he's delivering what they want. i like how he's had a consistent message, while hillary tries a few different voices.

[Seanz0rz]

anyone remember the southpark where it was a choice between a piece of fecal matter and a feminine hygiene product?

thats they way i feel about this election. out of the 3 who are battling it out, none deserve my vote. this is the first election i get to vote in (missed 04 by days) and i get to chose between a human waste and a bag full of vinegar and water. great. i understand that you are "suppose to" (i have huge issue with this) vote for the candidate who is closest to your beliefs. none of these guys do, save for ron paul, and he was promptly crushed. i even took serious issue with things that ron paul stood for, but it was things i valued less than some others which are very important to me. i have been a liberal/democrat all my life until the last couple years when i have watched the dems become weaker and weaker. i hate republicans, i think they are evil, but at least they have the balls to do what they want, right or not. dems dont even have the balls to stand up for what they think is right, which might even be worse than being evil.

no intentions to hurt any one's feelings or the like, just how i feel. what ever party affiliation you have, im sure you are a great person behind it. i simply wish there were no party lines, and people voted for whomever they thought best fit for the job. instead people vote certain ways based solely on party affiliation. what the hell is wrong with you people?

and this concludes my rant for this evening. stay tuned for my rant on finals, crazy girlfriends, and crazy family members next week!

[expatoz]

Ned's post is the most accurate and balanced so far.

First, if you believe in the sound bytes and articles from any media in isolation, you are a fool. Obama, like any intelligent person, will listen to many different points of view. Some will be agreed upon, some will be simply "taken in" and stored as a point of view, a view that you might not subscribe to. Have YOU not got any friends who you care about, but they say things at times you would not subscribe to yourself?

Second, if you believe the people of color of this country need to get off their high horse and just get on with making the best of things, you are two times a fool. The white majority of this country (of which I am) have no idea what it is like to live in another color skin. Racism is rife, period! The anger and hate from people of color is justified in this and many other countries (including my own - Australia). White people have occupied land held by others for lifetimes. White people demand people of color fit in to the white culture, and believe ignorantly that this is a land of opportunity for anyone, regardless of color, race, religion, sexual identity...BS!

Thirdly, Obama's success to date is a HUGH reflection on the desire of many Americans of the NEED for change. Any Change. How could anyone justly vote John Mc, Hillary (or Bush ) for President with the problems this country faces? Seriously! The only way I could see anyone voting for Hillary is if you wanted two presidents running the country...Hillary and Bill. I have a lot of time for Bill, but even he is not the right person for the job now.

My fear is that Obama gets elected to president, struggles to meet the demands of ever increasingly problematic foreign and local policy, gets accused of "See, a Black man failed as president", and that he becomes a target for assassination by a white extremist (group or person), at which point you watch the brick house tumble like a pack of cards as civil war looms its head in reaction to blame for the assassination.

To end my rant I suggest any white person look at themselves and think carefully about how they came to be where they are today (white privilege). It is telling that many of us are happy to live on the backs of slavery, war, racism, power, money and fear.

[calrockx]

and that he becomes a target for assassination by a white extremist (group or person),

Interestingly, on that note, some white supremacists don't get as riled up over Obama as you'd expect. As expressed by even David Duke...

All this contorted rationalization suggests that white supremacists feel compelled to explain away the confounding notion of an immensely gifted and appealing black man. Yet it also reflects the fact that, unlike Jesse Jackson, Obama simply lacks certain cultural signifiers--not to mention an urban-centric policy agenda--that would viscerally threaten racist whites obsessed with maintaining "white rights," ending affirmative action, and cutting off nearly all non-European immigration.

But there may be one more factor at work: hatred overload. It's a testament of sorts to Hillary Clinton that, by virtue of her cartoonish image as a leftist man-hating shrew, she manages to arouse more vitriol among white supremacists than a black man. Meanwhile, white racists absolutely despise John McCain for his support of George W. Bush's immigration reform plan, which they view as a dire threat to America's European-based culture. "I don't think Obama will be any more negative for the United States than Hillary or John McCain," explains Duke. "In fact," he added, "we probably have less preference for a European like a John McCain or a Hillary who has betrayed our interests, our heritage, our rights."

[ecchamberlin]

That is interesting Charles. I would not have guessed that as his position on the mater. Thanks

Sean I think things may be being a bit over simplified. Like you I do not vote party lines as I agree that it is sheepish and lazy. However, I don't think that the GOP is "evil". That sounds a bit Pres Bush'ish as fare as labeling stuff. I do not believe that the Rep Party as a whole is out to do harm which would be considered intent and therefore evil.

This is a great thread and I hope it can stay on track as it has so far...

[Seanz0rz]

i should clarify, as that post was very late at night. haha. when i say evil, i mean that they do not have the interests of the people in mind when making decisions, only the interests of themselves and others who influence them greatly. im not saying they are necessarily getting paid off for certain things (though i do think that does happen, alot more than we think it does) but they are only concerned with looking good and furthering their career.

in fairness, the dems are just as evil as the republicans, if not more so, since they claim to be the party affiliated with the lower classes.

[fustercluck]

Obama Attended Hate America Sermon

Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:14 PM

By: Ronald Kessler Article Font Size




Obama claims he was completely unaware that the Reverend Wrightç—´ trademark preaching style at the Trinity United Church of Christ targeted Ã¥Å*ªhite America.

Contrary to Senator Barack Obamaç—´ claim that he never heard his pastor Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. preach hatred of America, Obama was in the pews last July 22 when the minister blamed the Ã¥Å*ªhite arrogance of Americaç—´ Caucasian majority for the worldç—´ suffering, especially the oppression of blacks.


Senator Obama has sought to separate himself from his pastor痴 incendiary remarks, issuing a statement Friday rejecting them as 妬nflammatory and appalling but failing to renounce Wright himself for his venomous and paranoid denunciations of America.


In his press release, Obama claimed, å…¸he statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity [United Church of Christ] or heard him utter in private conversation.


Appearing on cable news shows this past weekend, Obama claimed when he saw recent videos that have Wright making such comments as 敵od damn America, he was 都hocked. Obama implied that the reverend had not used such derogatory language in any of the church services Obama attended over the past two decades.


If Obamaç—´ claims are true that he was completely unaware that Wrightç—´ trademark preaching style at the Trinity United Church of Christ has targeted Ã¥Å*ªhite America and Israel, he would have been one of the few people in Chicago to be so uninformed. Wrightç—´ reputation for spewing hate is well known.


In fact, Obama was present in the South Side Chicago church on July 22 last year when Jim Davis, a freelance correspondent for Newsmax, attended services along with Obama. [See: 念bama痴 Church: Cauldron of Division.脳


In his sermon that day, Wright tore into America, referring to the å¡«nited States of White America and lacing his sermon with expletives as Obama listened. Hearing Wrightç—´ attacks on his own country, Obama had the opportunity to walk out, but Davis said the senator sat in his pew and nodded in agreement.


Addressing the Iraq war, Wright thundered, 添oung African-American men were 電ying for nothing. The 妬llegal war, he shouted, was 澱ased on Bush痴 lies and is being �ought for oil money.


Obama痴 most famous celebrity backer, Oprah Winfrey began attending Wright痴 church in 1984. Last year, Newsmax magazine reported that Winfrey abruptly stopped attending years ago, and suggested that she did so to distance herself from Wright痴 inflammatory rhetoric. She soon found herself a target of Wright, who excoriated her for having broken with �raditional faith.


The Reverend Wright痴 anti-white theology that Senator Obama expressed surprise over is evident on the church痴 website. The site says the congregation subscribes to what it calls the Black Value System, which is described as a disavowal of 登ur racist competitive society and the pursuit of �iddle-classness. That is defined as a way for American society to 都nare blacks rather than 徒illing them off directly or �lacing them in concentration camps, just as the country structures 殿n economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.


的n the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01, Wright wrote in the church-affiliated magazine Trumpet four years after the attacks. 展hite America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 租isappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.



The Relationship Unravels


Senator Obama now is attempting to minimize his long and close relationship with the controversial minister.

On Friday, John McCainç—´ campaign distributed a Wall Street Journal op-ed å¾¹bama and the Minister written under my byline based on my reporting for Newsmax going back to early January of this year.


The op-ed included details of a sermon Wright gave at Howard University blaming America for starting the AIDS virus, training professional killers, importing drugs, shamelessly supporting Israel, and creating a racist society that would never elect a black man as president. [See: 徹bama痴 Minister痴 Hatred of America.脳


Obama痴 campaign quickly responded to the Wall Street Journal op-ed, posting a statement on the Huffington Post. In his statement, Obama acknowledged that some of Wright痴 statements have been 妬nflammatory and appalling.


Saying he strongly condemns Wrightç—´ comments, Obama continued, çš„ categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether itç—´ on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue. [emphasis added]


Again, Obama moved to narrowly distance himself from specific comments Wright had made, while still praising his minister in recent interviews for leading him to Jesus and preaching a 都ocial gospel.


Obama went on to claim that he first learned about Wrightç—´ controversial statements when he began his presidential campaign. But this assertion conflicts with the fact that just before Obamaç—´ nationally televised campaign kickoff rally on Feb. 10, 2007, the candidate disinvited Wright from giving the public invocation.


At the time, Wright explained: 展hen [Obama痴] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi with Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, 殿 lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.


According to Wright, Obama then told him, ?You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we致e decided is that it痴 best for you not to be out there in public.' Still, Obama and his family prayed privately with Wright just before the presidential announcement.


Apparently Obama never foresaw Wright痴 sermons making national television or becoming a sensation on YouTube. But lending graphic detail to the saga, ABC News and other networks began running a 2003 sermon in which Wright said, 典he government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 賎od Bless America. No, no, no, God damn America, that痴 in the Bible, for killing innocent people ... God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme. [Click Here to see video]


Obama has described Wright as a sounding board and mentor. Wright is one of the first people Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Obama consulted Wright before deciding to run for president. The title of Obamaç—´ bestseller å…¸he Audacity of Hope comes from one of Wrightç—´ sermons. Obamaç—´ æ·»es We Can! slogan is one of Wrightç—´ exhortations.


Apologists for Wright have said that what he says is normal in black churches, and many blacks claim such preaching cannot be understood by whites.


çš„f youæ±e black, itç—´ hard to say what you truly think and not upset white people, the New York Times quoted James Cone as saying. Cone is a professor at Union Theological Seminary and the father of what is known as black liberation theology.


But Juan Williams, a Fox News commentator and author of 摘nough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America, tells Newsmax that Wright痴 sermons reflect �he victim mindset that is so self-defeating in the black community and one that is played on by weak black leadership that chooses to have black people identified as victims rather than inspiring them as people who have overcome. In posing as victims, they say the most prejudiced and vicious things, not only about whites but about America. They call it theology. In fact, it痴 nothing but bigotry.


In failing to condemn Wright himself and claiming that he was unaware of the preacherç—´ hate-filled speech, Obama is continuing a longstanding pattern.


Obama often refers to Wright as being "like an old uncle, who sometimes says things I don't agree with." Wright is not Obamaç—´ ç¥ncle a person born into a blood relationship but a man he has cultivated for decades as a close friend, mentor and adviser.


After Newsmax broke the story on Jan. 14 that Wrightç—´ church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan in December for lifetime achievement, Obama again sought to denounce his ministerç—´ action without criticizing Wright himself.


Like Wright, Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews (calling Judaism a åµutter religion?, whites, America, and homosexuals. He has called whites æ¾±lue-eyed devils and the 殿nti-Christ. He has described Jews as æ¾±loodsuckers who control the government, the media, and some black organizations.


After the Newsmax story, Obama issued a statement purportedly addressing the issue.


"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan," Obama said.


Again, Obama was careful not to condemn Farrakhan himself or Wright who had spoken adoringly of Farrakhan and put their church behind the award to the controversial Nation of Islam leader.


展hen Minister Farrakhan speaks, black America listens, Trumpet quoted Wright as saying. 滴is depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.


Obama adroitly said, çš„ assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree.


In fact, Trumpet is published by Wrightç—´ church using the churchç—´ offices. Wrightç—´ daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.


Having gotten away with sidestepping Wrightç—´ adoring comments about Farrakhan, Obama told Jewish leaders flatly in Cleveland on Jan. 24 that the award was because of Farrakhanç—´ work with ex-offenders. To date, no news outlet has pointed out that Obamaç—´ claim is false.


Obama went on to explain away Wrightç—´ anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish stateç—´ support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his claim that the award to Farrakhan was made because of his work with ex-offenders, Obama made that up. Wrightç—´ statements denouncing Israel have not been qualified in any way.


On Fox News Hannity & Colmes on Saturday, Obama said he would have quit the church if he had �epeatedly been present when Wright made inflammatory statements. He was not asked why he did not quit the church when it gave an award to Farrakhan.


Having considered Wright a friend and mentor for two decades, Obama now often mentions that his pastor recently retired. Wright suggested to the New York Times last year that he and Obama might have to do something of a distancing act in the run up to the election.


"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Wright was quoted by The New York Times. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said, å¡‘eah, that might have to happen.'"





Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com. View his previous reports and get his dispatches sent to you free via e-mail. Go here now.








ｩ 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hat.../16/80870.html

[expatoz]

Well, I'd be curious to hear reaction to Obama's speech today, both from people here and the general US public. I think he did an excellent job not distancing himself completely and also identifying that there are reasons for the opinions of Wright.