Another big day for gun owners and the 2nd Amendment

[oly884]

alright gun nuts, if you caught the press conference today, you saw obama address the issue of guns.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090121/...ma_regulations

I'm going to hope that you're right Cal, because if not, I'm pulling the I TOLD YOU SO out...

[gilby4runner]

So, I'll have my "I TOLD YOU SO" shirts ready to distribute.

Can i buy one????? XL please!

[oly884]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/

A little bit from the article...

"Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."

So, what was that about obama not taking our guns? It appears that he clearly support at least making it impossible to get certain types of guns (and who knows where it will stop).

So, all you folks who ragged on Bush for "violating our rights" are you going to fight Obama for doing the same?

[AxleIke]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/

A little bit from the article...

"Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."

So, what was that about obama not taking our guns? Oh, right, he's lying.

So, all you folks who ragged on Bush for "violating our rights" are you going to fight Obama for doing the same?

The only thing I take issue with is the Ban.

However, I think its a little overreaching to say "...oboma not taking our guns? Oh, right, he's lying".

I think it should be amended to: "He MAY take away a FEW of our guns."

Keep in mind that I am very much against the Assault weapons ban. I don't support any legislation that restricts a citizen who has no criminal record from doing anything.

I also find issue with broad statements that seem overly biased.

Personally, I will wait to see what legislation is seriously proposed, rather than talk in policy statements. I've seen a lot of politicians promise a lot of things. Not very many have delivered.

Bush actually violated our rights, in huge ways. I will wait until Obama actually does something before getting pissed.

[oly884]

Updated my post a bit...

As far as taking away a FEW guns, well, it's still taking away or preventing the purchase of guns. Take one away, or all of them away, it's still a violation of my 2nd amendment rights.

And as for waiting until Obama does something. I cannot take that avenue, I won't sit idly by as the framework for stripping me of my rights is being established. Showing Obama and the rest of the politicians (regardless of political sides) that this is unacceptable is what needs to be done. I'm not going to defend Bush and what he has done to our civil liberties because there's a lot there that I think he did wrong, but this time around I hope that people are smart enough to stand up and NOT let it happen again.

My main point in bringing this up is that Obama supporters said "he's not going to take your guns..."

And as I said, his voting record doesn't agree with that. And that link I posted, from the White House, agrees with what I have said.

[AxleIke]

Fair enough. I disagree with some of that, but I don't think a discussion on constitutional issues will go very far.

[oly884]

I want Obama to do a great job as president, I'll support him as much as I can, but I will stand against him and his supporters when I feel it is necessary. We have our rights given to us in the Constitution, and we need to defend those rights. We have had a constant attack on those rights in various names (national security, safety on the streets, being healthy, being green, etc, etc.) and much like anyone else, I am not willing to see those rights vanish. I'm done playing the party game, it hasn't got us anywhere. With that said, we should not back down from what we as individuals feel is right or wrong, but we should learn to compromise.

I understand the fear that some individuals have for AR-15's and the like, however, these individuals need to recognize that the 2nd amendment wasn't put in place for hunting as well. If there is a concern about kids or criminals getting their hands on guns, then why not work WITH the people who support guns and handle them day to day to come to a solution.

Imposing AWB's and any other ban whether it be ammunition or a type or look of a gun will only hurt those who are honest and law abiding citizens.

[AxleIke]

Great post.

I don't disagree with your point of view, in fact, I am in full agreement with it.

I DEFINITELY don't stand on party lines. What a waste of time. Standing on sides of individual ISSUES is what will move us forward.

What I disagree with is your "violation of 2nd amendment rights" and your reading of said amendment. This has nothing to do with guns, and all with technical constitutional interpretation.

I would say its more in the nature of a mental exercise than any vehement opposition.

Another thread for another time.

[Good Times]

Regardless of what new laws are in place, the bad guys will still get all of their illegal firearms one way or another. These restrictions just put the law abiding citizens at a significant disadvantage. Why can't the damn politicians understand this?

All they're doing is penalizing the law abiding citizens for the stuff the bad guns engage in. What they need to do is impose stiffer penalties for the bad guys when they engage in the illegal activities.

bah!

[oly884]

Regardless of what new laws are in place, the bad guys will still get all of their illegal firearms one way or another. These restrictions just put the law abiding citizens at a significant disadvantage. Why can't the damn politicians understand this?

All they're doing is penalizing the law abiding citizens for the stuff the bad guns engage in. What they need to do is impose stiffer penalties for the bad guys when they engage in the illegal activities.

bah!

Very great points, but I'll point out that most of the time, these "assault rifles" are not used in crimes. Criminals look for cheap/stolen pistols and rifles to commit crimes. How often do you hear about a store being held up by an AK47/AR15 vs a generic "9mm pistol"?

Great post.

I don't disagree with your point of view, in fact, I am in full agreement with it.

I DEFINITELY don't stand on party lines. What a waste of time. Standing on sides of individual ISSUES is what will move us forward.

What I disagree with is your "violation of 2nd amendment rights" and your reading of said amendment. This has nothing to do with guns, and all with technical constitutional interpretation.

I would say its more in the nature of a mental exercise than any vehement opposition.

Another thread for another time.

Perhaps we can discuss the 2nd amendment here, it's a fitting thread. What is your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? Does it not guarantee the individual's right to keep and bear arms?

I'm sure you've seen this before, but I'll post it just in case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM (NSFW, language at the very end)

This is my interpretation of the 2nd amendment as well. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that the 2nd amendment does not apply to the individual.