Bailout's On?

[Obi..]

Thoughts?

[Seanz0rz]

as much as i think that all 3 deserve to go under for decades of horrible products and a lack of caring for the consumer, i am very very happy they are getting some cash. hopefully this is the wakeup call the industry needed, and will listen to it.

[Bob98SR5]

How much do you want to bet that these bailouts will die a slow death because of the greedy f##g unions? Unions as a whole don't concede much, and if they do concede, its temporary. When will Americans and companies learn that unions have outlived their useful purpose and as we've seen, become so burdensome on a company's bottom line that their products are overpriced due to the inflated labor cost and do NOT guarantee better quality? I've read a certain TOF owner say over and over again that unions are the panacea to fixing problems. NO they are not. They complain about outsourcing as the source of production problems. Of course, small minded, selfish thinking like this does not realize that because of overinflated labor and the accompanying benefit packages force companies to cut costs in areas where they dont have to deal with burdensome union bulls###. So they look to outsource component manufacturing (for example).

I know there's some of you who are union and do an outstanding job and provide great benefits to your companies, but in the case of these UAW guys, they are paid way more and their products generally suck in terms of product quality as compared to foreign companies such as Toyota and their non-union AMERICAN workers who are paid competitively but do not pander to the whole cry baby collective bargaining bulls##t that the UAW is generally known for

Sorry for the somewhat tangential rant, but we'll see if the UAW is on board with thinking about the company before themselves

[Whitey]

How much do you want to bet that these bailouts will die a slow death because of the greedy f##g unions? Unions as a whole don't concede much, and if they do concede, its temporary. When will Americans and companies learn that unions have outlived their useful purpose and as we've seen, become so burdensome on a company's bottom line that their products are overpriced due to the inflated labor cost and do NOT guarantee better quality? I've read a certain TOF owner say over and over again that unions are the panacea to fixing problems. NO they are not. They complain about outsourcing as the source of production problems. Of course, small minded, selfish thinking like this does not realize that because of overinflated labor and the accompanying benefit packages force companies to cut costs in areas where they dont have to deal with burdensome union bulls###. So they look to outsource component manufacturing (for example).

I know there's some of you who are union and do an outstanding job and provide great benefits to your companies, but in the case of these UAW guys, they are paid way more and their products generally suck in terms of product quality as compared to foreign companies such as Toyota and their non-union AMERICAN workers who are paid competitively but do not pander to the whole cry baby collective bargaining bulls##t that the UAW is generally known for

Sorry for the somewhat tangential rant, but we'll see if the UAW is on board with thinking about the company before themselves

I'm glad someone said it...

[Seanz0rz]

i agree, i think the UAW needs to make HUGE concessions at this point. if they dont, they wont have an industry to unionize...

[corax]

How much do you want to bet that these bailouts will die a slow death because of the greedy f##g unions? Unions as a whole don't concede much, and if they do concede, its temporary. When will Americans and companies learn that unions have outlived their useful purpose and as we've seen, become so burdensome on a company's bottom line that their products are overpriced due to the inflated labor cost and do NOT guarantee better quality?

According to Forbes:




Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers.

Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)

GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)

Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school diploma, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a PhD.





Then there's the "Job Bank"

When a D3 (Detroit 3 carmaker) lays an employee off, that employee continues to receive all benefits - medical, retirement, etc., etc., PLUS an hourly wage of $31/hour.

Here's a typical story....

Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.

[oly884]

Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.

I feel sorry for Mr. Pool. A man who accepts that as "work" is a pitiful human. He has no work ethic, and a clear lack of self esteem possibly covered by an enlarged ego. Every one of those 12,000 workers should be fired immediately with an instant stop to all benefits, etc. Call me a hard ass or inconsiderate, but as it has always been, in order to get things, you have to TRADE things. I trade my time and talents at my company for health benefits and money.

These people are trading NOTHING, the company is gaining absolutely NOTHING from these people, and they are still receiving pay. Sure they did, at some point, trade their time, but at this point, what justifies them being payed to come into a building to sit and do crossword puzzles?

Nothing.

These people are the reason that this country is now so messed up, and the mentality of these unions, politicians, and workers that think this is OK is the reason we are so messed up. I can only hope that if/when a depression comes, these people are the least prepared and they suffer the full consequences of their actions.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Good Times]

damn I'm in the wrong industry. how do I go about and get a job at one of these auto plants? I'll even take the one at Toyota so I can pick out my own car/truck off the line!

I feel sorry for Mr. Pool. A man who accepts that as "work" is a pitiful human. He has no work ethic, and a clear lack of self esteem possibly covered by an enlarged ego. Every one of those 12,000 workers should be fired immediately with an instant stop to all benefits, etc. Call me a hard ass or inconsiderate, but as it has always been, in order to get things, you have to TRADE things. I trade my time and talents at my company for health benefits and money.

These people are trading NOTHING, the company is gaining absolutely NOTHING from these people, and they are still receiving pay. Sure they did, at some point, trade their time, but at this point, what justifies them being payed to come into a building to sit and do crossword puzzles?

Nothing.

These people are the reason that this country is now so messed up, and the mentality of these unions, politicians, and workers that think this is OK is the reason we are so messed up. I can only hope that if/when a depression comes, these people are the least prepared and they suffer the full consequences of their actions.

Absolutely disgusting.

I am SOOOOOO with you here!!!

I bet if they did this their wages would be more realistic to what everyone else makes. In Los Angeles, there's really no way to make that much with a high school education. If you do, damn you're either one great entrepreneur or just lucky and won the lottery!

[Whitey]

I hate to use facts on an internet forum, but...

The "Ken Pool" article was written in 2005, not in response to the most recent auto industry woes.

Ron Gettlefinger announced about 10 days ago that he was willing to make concessions to secure the government money, which include getting rid of job banks and putting health care trust funding on hold.

[Whitey]

I am SOOOOOO with you here!!!

I bet if they did this their wages would be more realistic to what everyone else makes. In Los Angeles, there's really no way to make that much with a high school education. If you do, damn you're either one great entrepreneur or just lucky and won the lottery!

Take a look at what the union workers at the Port of LA/Long Beach make...