Head gasket trouble- time for a top-end rebuild

[mastacox]

And Jamie, what's your opinion of a thick copper headgasket set? How do we think they seal when compared to a set of factory head gaskets? I noticed this post in your top-end rebuild thread:

I also mentioned having them resurfaced and the guy told me the toyota spec says you can only take off 0.0039" from the head gasket's sealing surface before you need to shim the head (to put it into perspective, the typical piece of white xerox paper is about 0.004" thick so we're talking about the thickness of a sheet of paper being removed before you have problems). If you exceed the 0.0039" of material removed from the head, you'll need to start running custom copper head gaskets to correct the head height (I've found aftermarket copper head gaskets up to about 2mm or 0.08" thick, which would be a good choice for supercharged motors in an effort to reduce the compression to prevent knocking). So by comparison, the stock head gasket compressed is about 1.25mm or about 0.050" thick.

I remember reading about a guy with a supercharged Hilux that was using extra thick copper headgaskets (around 3mm or .112" IIRC) in an effort to reduce compression because he was having ping issues. Since I'm supercharged anyway, I might be interested in going a similar route and make up for the reduced compression with increased boost...

[MTL_4runner]

And Jamie, what's your opinion of a thick copper headgasket set? How do we think they seal when compared to a set of factory head gaskets? I noticed this post in your top-end rebuild thread:

I also mentioned having them resurfaced and the guy told me the toyota spec says you can only take off 0.0039" from the head gasket's sealing surface before you need to shim the head (to put it into perspective, the typical piece of white xerox paper is about 0.004" thick so we're talking about the thickness of a sheet of paper being removed before you have problems). If you exceed the 0.0039" of material removed from the head, you'll need to start running custom copper head gaskets to correct the head height (I've found aftermarket copper head gaskets up to about 2mm or 0.08" thick, which would be a good choice for supercharged motors in an effort to reduce the compression to prevent knocking). So by comparison, the stock head gasket compressed is about 1.25mm or about 0.050" thick.

I remember reading about a guy with a supercharged Hilux that was using extra thick copper headgaskets (around 3mm or .112" IIRC) in an effort to reduce compression because he was having ping issues. Since I'm supercharged anyway, I might be interested in going a similar route and make up for the reduced compression with increased boost...

It won't change compression much either way, but the copper gaskets do tend to seal well (copper is very soft) and would not be a bad choice for your SC'd motor to loose a tiny bit of compression. Trouble is finding a set of copper HGs for the 3.4L a reasonable price.

[mt_goat]

Sorry to see the troubles Brian. Good luck with it all. Jamie's thread should be a great help.

[mastacox]

Alrighty, so I need to pull the trigger on buying the stuff I'll need for my rebuild. Because I don't live particularly close to a large Toyota Dealer, I need to make an effort to buy everything I need for this job. Each missing part or problem I run into will mean extra days down, which I need to avoid.

Here's a list of what I'm thinking I'm going to need for this project, based on MTL's adventures and the FSM:

Timing Belt Parts:

• Timing Belt (OEM)
• Water Pump (OEM?, ouch)
• Timing Belt Tensioner (PCI P/N 60193)
• Timing belt tension idler bearings #1 (OEM Toyota P/N 13505-62070) and #2 (OEM Toyota P/N 13503-62040)
• "Custom" SST for crank pulley bolt. Will I need the SST/puller to get the crank pulley off?
• SST for the RH/LH camshaft timing belt pulleys? Craftsman maybe?
• The last step in the FSM is removing the crankshaft timing pulley with a SST, but I don't think I need to remove this pulley since I'm not doing anything in the bottom end.

Head parts:

• Copper head gaskets, as long as I can find a set. Backup plan will be an OEM gasket set as long as we don't need to take more than .0039" off the heads.
• Knock sensor wire (OEM Toyota P/N 82219-34010)
• (16) Head bolts (OEM Toyota P/N 90910-02077)
• (6) Exhaust heat shield nuts (OEM Toyota P/N 90179-06293)
• RH/LH Cylinder Head Cover Gaskets?
• (6) Spark Plug Tube Gaskets?
• Exhaust Crossover/Collector Gaskets?
• Heads/Exhaust Manifold gaskets?
• Intake Manifold Assembly Gaskets?
• PCV valve and gasket (OEM Toyota P/N 12204-62010 and 90480-18001)

Random Other Stuff:

• Blue Loc-Tite
• Red Loc-Tite
• Bolt Anti-Seize
• Engine Assembly Oil
• Black RTV (just in case)
• Broken Bolt Extractor Kit (just in-case)
• Cam service bolts (M6x1.0, 16-20mm length)
• Gasket Scraper (to clean engine block from old head gaskets)
• Torque Wrench that covers below 25 ft-lb range (I already have a 25-250 ft-lb craftsman digi-torque)
• Toyota Red Antifreeze
• Possibly a metric tap/die set for chasing bolts and nuts, if I can find one on a tight budget

So, I would REALLY appreciate it if people with experience in timing belt replacement and/or head work would take a look at the list and tell me what I'm missing (or what I probably won't need). Like I said, the more I'm prepared for, the faster this will go when I dive in. Thanks!

And for MTL- where did you get the top-end gasket kit you refer to in your thread (I see ITM but no link)? I assume you got your heads rebuilt by www.cylinderheads.com, so I'm planning on using them too. Looks like you had a good experience with them.

[mt_goat]

Will I need the SST/puller to get the crank pulley off

No, you can get by without it coming off, but you'll need it for going back on so might as well make it first. Coming off you can use the bump starter method.

[mastacox]

Will I need the SST/puller to get the crank pulley off

No, you can get by without it coming off, but you'll need it for going back on so might as well make it first. Coming off you can use the bump starter method.

The FSM has two SST's associated with removal of the crank pulley. One is breaker-bar looking thing that fits in the pulley and prevents it from moving when you loosen the bolt. In the next step after the bolt is removed, there is an optional "if necessary" step using a puller looking SST and service bolt to yank the pulley from the crank. I'm wondering if the pulley will be seized on the crank necessitating a puller, or should I be able to just yank/bang it off?

Pictures of the two SST's in step 14:

[mt_goat]

Oh sorry, I was just talking about the holder SST to loosen the crank bolt, yeah you'll probably need the puller SST to get it off. I just borrowed a puller from Autozone to pull the balancer off the crank on my Taurus.

[MTL_4runner]

I doubt you'll need a puller to get the balancer off if you live in a dry, rust-free climate like NM but it might be a good idea to have one handy. If you wanted to buy one, I use the Snap-on one attached and they should be not too expensive on ebay.

If you need a balancer holding tool, just look in my head gasket thread and you'll see how to make one from a 2x4 which will be dirt cheap.

[mastacox]

Alrighty, its time to wake up this thread because I'm getting ready to get dirty

I saved up my money and am going all-OEM on the rebuild. It's going to be quite a bit more expensive than a "budget" rebuild, but once everything is done I'll have a brand-new engine, which is going to be sooo nice since my supercharger is recently rebuilt too. This thing is going to be smooth and fast!

So, I pulled the trigger at www.toyotapartsales.com (Toyota of Dallas) and a head remanufacturer and bought the following:

• Timing Belt
• Water Pump
• Timing Belt Tensioner
• Upper Timing Idler
• Lower Timing Idler
• Engine Overhaul Gasket Set
• PCV Valve
• Head Bolts
• Exhaust Studs and Nuts
• Knock Sensor Wire
• Remanufactured heads from www.cylinder-heads.com

So altogether parts will be around $1500, which sounds about right for the work being done (a FULL top-end rebuild). In addition I'll be buying a few odd-n-ends like some air tools, a smaller torque wrench, and some stuff to make custom SST's. Along with my trusty FSM, I'm planning on doing the entire job over an extended next weekend. Getting the remanufactured heads will be nice because I'll have them ready to put in when I start taking the engine apart. Paired with a nice air compressor, a full complement of air tools, and a firend for a slave, I think we'll be able to get it done.

[DHC6twinotter]

When I did my timing belt, I build my own SST to keep the crank from turning while I loosened the crank bolt. It was easy, and cost me less than $9.00. I used a pulley puller to pull the crank pulley off once I had the bolt out. I got it from the auto parts store loan-a-tool program.