1 row vs. 2 row vs. 3 row radiator? Copper/brass or alum/plastic?

[DHC6twinotter]

Hey folks.

So, my radiator has developed a leak a bit ago, and I'm looking to replace it. The radiator is a copper/brass 3 row Modine radiator.

Yesterday, I ran by the same place to buy another Modine radiator. I was pleased with the quality, and never had any overheating issues. Well, Modine has gone bankrupt, and there was another automotive supplier located in the same building, so I picked up one of their radiators. The radiator I picked up is made by CRS, and has an aluminum core with plastic tanks and metal side supports and is a single row (which I didn't notice at the time).

Anyways, is the difference between a single row, 2 row, or 3 row pretty significant? I've done some searching, and some people say a 3 row is the best, but others have said a 2 row is better since the passage ways are larger than the 3 row. Either way, it looks like a 2 or 3 row is a lot better than my single row.

Also, there seems to be a debate on whether or not the aluminum cores cool better than the brass cores. Can anybody shed some light on this?

I was looking at returning it and picking up one of these:

Aluminum/plastic 3 row
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PLI-432272/

All Aluminum 3 row (scroll down a bit):
http://www.racepages.com/products/in...4294963882+777

Thanks folks.

[DHC6twinotter]

BTW, I just measured the core depth, and this new radiator is almost 3/4" shallower than my old one.

I'm bringing this back.

[slosurfer]

sorry, can't help on this one, but I would like to know for when mine goes

[YotaGirl]

All I can say is I had overheating problems with my runner until I put in the 3 row. I have been so happy with it, I won't go back.

[DHC6twinotter]

Jenn, was your stock radiator a 2 row? Seems like I read somewhere that the 4 cylinder models came with a 2 row, but I don't know for sure.

[corax]

there are alot of variables, some single core radiators can outperform a dual core radiator:
- depends on how wide each core is.
- 4 core doesn't pick up much efficiency over a 3 core since each successive core is being heated by the one in front of it
- each core you add increases the resistance to airflow, actually, total thickness increases the resistance to airflow -> less airflow=less air to carry heat away
- "fin count" between the cores has a big effect on cooling, more fins=more surface to conduct heat away from the core itself
-core design, internal dimples or corrugation increases surface area to transfer heat from the coolant to the core metal, is also increases turbulance which aids heat transfer

here's a bit more reading for you that I found:
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0...tem/index.html
http://www.carolinarodshop.com/Store...in/griffin.htm

[DHC6twinotter]

Thanks Keith. That's some good reading. I found this part interesting, especially since I thought distilled water was the best:

"What you pour into a radiator is also an important decision if you want to protect all those expensive aluminum engine components. Straight water is the most thermally efficient coolant, but anticorrosion issues and cold weather demand antifreeze. According to Jay Ross at Applied Chemical Specialties, the best water to use is soft water. Distilled water is not a good idea because distillation strips ions from the water. When it is introduced into the cooling system, the natural chemical-balance process will pull the ions from light metals such as aluminum or magnesium that are exposed to the water. This ion transfer greatly enhances the corrosion process called electrolysis. Soft water is treated with sodium chloride that replaces the lost ions and minimizes the electrolysis process. If soft water is not available, then bottled water or tap water is the next best solution. If you insist on distilled water, Ross says mixing it 50/50 with antifreeze will pull ions from the antifreeze rather than from your cooling system itself."




From Griffin:

Seen in example A is a copper brass core cross section using 1/2" tubes. Much of the cooling efficiency is lost because of the limited amount of tube-to-fin contact. Seen in example B is an aluminum core cross section using 1" tubes. Since the aluminum tube is a minimum of 1", the efficiency of the tube-to=fin contact is much greater. In fact a two row 1" tube radiator has 40% greater tube-to-fin contact over a 4 row copper brass radiator (this can be seen in the examples above by a comparison of the measurement B) Therefore the cooling efficiency is increased by 25% over that of a copper brass core.
Aluminum radiators are also 60% lighter than the same copper brass radiator.

That Griffin diagram is really helpfull too, although I was under the impression that copper dissipate heat better, which they don't seem to mention. If I'm following correctly, their comparison seems to be more about the differences between 2 row and 4 row radiators than the differences of copper vs. aluminum.

It sounds like a 2 row aluminum core is better than a 4 row copper core. With copper having better heat dissipation, would a 2 row copper core with at least 1" tubes be the best option for a factory replacement (figuring I don't have much more than a few inches of room anyways)?

I also found this site, which mentions a new way of constructing copper radiators:
http://www.copper.org/publications/n...uprobraze.html

Interesting stuff.

[DHC6twinotter]

BTW, when they say 1" tube, is that the width or the circumference of the tube? If it's the width, than that diagram by Griffin has me lost.

Edit: it looks likes that is in reference to the width. So, looking at the Griffin diagram, 4 rows of 1/2" tube equals 2". 2 rows of 1" tube equals 2". From that understanding, both pictures in the diagram have the same tube to fin contact. The 4 row would have a thicker core to compensate for the additonal space between the extra rows. Am I missing something?????

[DHC6twinotter]

I found this site, which has some good info too:

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/rad2.htm

[DHC6twinotter]

So, if I understand this right, the best to worse radiator in terms of cooling efficiency would be arranged like this (best at top):

1. 2 row aluminum
2. 4 row copper
3. 3 row copper
4. 1 row aluminum
5. 2 row copper

*Assuming 1" tubes for aluminum, and 1/2" tubes for copper radiators.

Does this sound about right?