On Owning Evil Black Guns, A Primer

[oly884]

I'm curious...why would you want to defend a semi-auto, high capacity rifle like the AR15 if you consider them an "Evil Black Gun"? Was this a result of your conversation with the crazy or did you already feel that way?

Who is your post directed at?

[oly884]

I understand the part that if more people attack me than I have rounds in my weapon, that is bad news. I assume there is a stat about how many rounds the average home invasion or rape involves.

Well, while I was using the example of 6 rounds vs 30 (typical for an AR-15) the point I was trying to get at was a bit deeper. It's not just the amount of ammo that you can carry, but the gun itself. A big ol' 454 wheel gun is intimidating, but for a home defense situation, an AR would be far more versatile for a number of reasons. So, my point isn't focused on one needing 10, 20, 50 rounds, but rather a firearm designed for defense. An AR-15 shooting a 5.56 NATO round is easier to aim, 30 rounds in a magazine, negligible recoil, no muzzle flash, and semi-automatic and the effects of the 5.56 bullet traveling at those velocities makes for an excellent round to stop someone from doing you or those you love harm. Does one need all these things? Not completely, however, go back to the hammer vs nail gun comparison both a hammer and a nail gun accomplish the same task, but one is far more effective.

As a tangent, the bit about how gun legislation is supposed to keep weapons away from criminals makes me laugh. If people want to get guns and kill people, they are obviously not interested in playing by the rules so more rules won't stop them.

Spot on.

Just a comment on what you wrote above.

An Ar is an effective tool. And it has its place in HD for some.

Me i have a 18.5" 12g with #6 bird shot, very effective in a house, and wont really penetrate drywall like a .223 round will.

Also there was an article i read the other day about a class at one of the training places, they asked a guy to come in with his lever action rifle to do the class.
Out of 15-20 people he was the only one that did not have a semi auto AR type rifle.
They said he scored better than all the others. And no he wasn't up against beginners it was a law enforcement class.

Not whats shooting at you but whos behind it.

Well, I've got a shotgun too that can be used as a HD gun. However, given my layout, my familiarity with my AR, and my EOTech sight on it, I choose to use that. Plus, my shotgun has had a few issues, and while they are fixed now, I still prefer to go with a far more reliable firearm.

[Small_words]

The 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to bear arms. What the motivation of the authors of the Bill of Rights were in writing this amendment to our Constitution isn’t what I’m trying to get at. Our right to carry weapons has been eroded because we are not allowed to carry fully automatic weapons. Several of you have said that chemical weapons aren’t pertinent to this discussion because they are banned by international treaties. The US has signed this treaty which has infringed upon our rights to carry weapons. So, we’ve given up some of our rights to carry weapons and so far I haven’t seen anyone say that we should be allowed to have chemical weapons. So, you’re okay with banning some weapons but not others.

The Constitution, so far as I know, does not say it is permissible to remove a person’s rights. So, why do we not allow felons to buy a gun? We’ve removed their right to both buy a gun and participate in the democratic process. Is this fair? We’ve all committed crimes but no one advocates taking away your right to purchase a gun because you have speeding tickets. The difference is one of degree. Committing one crime means you’ve shown yourself to be irresponsible and therefore can’t own a gun but committing another one doesn’t have the same ramification.

It’s hypocrisy to say that the 2nd Amendment guarantees me the right to carry any and all weapons if you are okay with preventing any other person from buying and carrying a weapon. There are no absolutes.

I certainly didn’t say that banning guns was a good idea and agree that this would only make us more vulnerable to criminals because they would still carry. The Brits haven’t had much success with banning guns and actually have higher violent crime statistics than we. Oly, what made you conclude that I want to ban guns?

[Cheese]

Around my house a hand cannon would not be effective at solving home invasion issues. I would prefer a short barreled shotgun.

Around camp, a hand cannon is a lot more usable for home invasion.

I am struggling to create a defense of those weapons that extends beyond the coolness. For instance, I think an AR15, especially looking at some of the modified and accuracy dialed ones, is a sweet weapon.

The rub for me is people as what I would use that for, as in me personally. I'd rather buy a bunch of other weapons before that and personally have Zero use for one. As a result, I went through my mental check list as to why others wanted them, hence me asking you guys, hey, why do you want and have these?

It sounds like some have them because they are cool.

It sounds like some have them because it is a right.

It sounds like some have them because they feel it is important to be prepared.

It sounds like some have them because they are the right tool for some jobs.

[reggie 00]

Well, I've got a shotgun too that can be used as a HD gun. However, given my layout, my familiarity with my AR, and my EOTech sight on it, I choose to use that. Plus, my shotgun has had a few issues, and while they are fixed now, I still prefer to go with a far more reliable firearm.

Sorry to confuse,

Wasn't calling out your choice, just wanted anyone who read the thread to know there are other choices.

If for some reason the shot gun doesnt handle business, the M4 is next up to bat, followed by a 20g with 00,then......

[RobG]

Ban onions, that’s funny. Yes, we must ban them; we must do it for the children.

Some time ago I was not very concerned with the AW ban, might have even supported it but never gave it much thought. I enjoy target shooting and believe in the right to own and bear arms. I don’t hunt, wish I did but I don’t, everyone that eats meat should, but that’s another subject.

Today my thinking is very different. If I want an assault rifle to defend myself, target shoot/plink with, or just to keep for a rainy day I believe I have the right to do so. I believe you as a sane non-felon can do so as well. Although most of my experience is with long guns I have developed a recent affinity to pistols primarily due to their portability and concealment advantages. Don’t really want an evil black gun but I would like a Mini14 or M1A someday, last Brady list I saw had those on the AWB list.

So I’ll concede to not being able to have fully auto but I draw the line at the semi-auto. Once they take one semi auto it won’t be long before they take them all, black, blue, green, pink…. So I believe the slippery slope thing is true. Bring in the 2A arguments and that the bans don’t affect criminals and think it’s clear where we need to mark and hold the line. Most people here seem to be saying something similar.

I have taken some defensive firearms training classes and believe that training is much more important than selection of equipment or caliber. Knowing what to do with what you have is far more important than the incremental difference in modern semi-auto firearms. I look forward to more advanced training more than the next hardware purchase. So yes we have a right to own the evil black rifle if we want but we also have to know how to use it proficiently and responsibly.

[reggie 00]

The rub for me is people as what I would use that for, as in me personally. I'd rather buy a bunch of other weapons before that and personally have Zero use for one.

I was the same way till i ran out of other things to get, then i picked one up.

It sounds like some have them because they are cool.

I do

It sounds like some have them because it is a right.

I do

It sounds like some have them because they feel it is important to be prepared.

I do

It sounds like some have them because they are the right tool for some jobs.

Cant have to many tools

[oly884]

I certainly didn’t say that banning guns was a good idea and agree that this would only make us more vulnerable to criminals because they would still carry. The Brits haven’t had much success with banning guns and actually have higher violent crime statistics than we. Oly, what made you conclude that I want to ban guns?

Small_words, I apologize if I inferred that I thought you wanted to ban guns, when you said you made the comment about civilians owning a .50 cal sniper rifle, I interpereted that you felt that there was no need for one to own one.

[Bighead]

Adrian's initial post.

I'm curious...why would you want to defend a semi-auto, high capacity rifle like the AR15 if you consider them an "Evil Black Gun"? Was this a result of your conversation with the crazy or did you already feel that way?

Who is your post directed at?

[Cheese]

Lance, did the response make sense?

I guess the first post was not entirely clear.

The conversation turned to these, by saying that "I didn't understand" there was not an implicit judgment that the guns were inherently useless. It is that I do not have them, so it is hard for me to talk about. Similarly, parenthood and childbirth, I can only talk about what others tell me.

I don't think they are evil, I do often think they look menacing, but so do I some times, no worries.

I have not become a crazy hippy while away at school.