Why we are screwed

[slosurfer]

Was trying to catch up on this thread this morning and saw this slightly creepy offtopic tidbit.

I'm calling BS, who exactly told you I was there picking up trash?

*FWIW I'm well aware of what you were doing before Pismo. You weren't the only one there, right. I do know people in SLO.

[Small_words]

I also talk as a 30-ish year old man without a job and a baby in the house. Thankfully my wife has a good job that's keeping us afloat. Our country needs some serious changes and I dearly hope Obama gets it done, I just don't like his first few steps.

He passed a stimulus bill that is laden with incredible amounts of pork and didn't address the hardest hit portions of the economy, manufacturing & construction. His budget is nowhere near balanced and his numbers don't add up about when it's going to return to solvency. Now we're more in debt to China, which is one of the places so many of our manufacturing jobs are going. Health insurance reform is needed but so far the bills just increase the complexity of its regulation and increasing complexity makes it cost ineffective for anyone but the largest (i.e. already existing) companies to continue operation and also makes it much easier to make advantageous loop-holes which can be bought through any congressperson because we do an abysmal job of transparency of donations. How did Charlie Rangel afford a vacation home in the Caribean? How does Chris Dodd have a vacation home in Ireland?

The change that's needed is to have a better business environment. This isn't to say a better climate for the market, but for businesses. Small businesses pass on the most income to the workers relative to company income. Our small businesses have to ensure compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act in order to get a government contract regardless of whether they have any employees with disabilities. The Consumer Product Safety Act makes it nearly impossible for small businesses to make objects for children because they can't afford the research needed for compliance. So many of our laws are federal instead of state that the corrupt law makers taking bribes in the form of campaign donations can do whatever they want and there's little in that we individuals can change anything. I couldn't do anything to Ted Stevens of Alaska nor can I do anything to John Murtha of West Virginia yet both are corrupt. The laws they pass and money they direct affect me and my state but we can do nothing to stop it.

If Obama wants to actually change and help individual Americans he'll give us back our control by shedding light on the corruption in Congress and cut out some of the bureaucratic regulations that supposedly protect the individual but in fact make it easier for the biggest companies to operate...and outsource and screw us. The stronger our small business sector is, the better and wealthier our country is.

- Edit -

If our government doesn't give back control to the states and the individuals there will be a reckoning. I don't expect pitchforks, but several Amendments have passed by direct vote because Congress had gone too far. Besides, with the popular sentiment against both parties, how long will it be before a state tries something akin to secession?

[oly884]

Wow, a lot of posts!!!

Small_words, yes, I oppose the federal government's expansion and taking over of individual rights and freedoms. This isn't limited to one party or person specifically, and while it may appear to be, Obama is in the driver's seat right now and he deserves the criticism.

NorCal, perhaps we are not too far apart in our beliefs, I can't tell, but what I noticed is that you seem to be for change, of any kind. Whereas I believe in change, if it's in the right direction. A change of course can send you down a nice road, or off a cliff. I fear that feds are making the wrong turn, and I feel that history has shown this.

You said that:

...and everyone has to admit that the capitalistic drive that has made the U.S. so powerful initially, has also at the same time brought us to this point.

Yup. I agree. Capitalism has got us here, to an extent. It breeds greed, but ONLY capitalism has the ability to destroy greed. We, as a society, however have been brainwashed to 'accept it' and say, "it is what it is" throw our arms up and go on. Sadly, "change" is not what we need to fix this problem. Well, actually, freeing up the market more is what we need to do.

For example: If a road side vendor is selling apples, and someone starts selling the exact same apples for half the cost, the original vendor will have to either match costs, offer something else to entice the customers, or pack up and leave. Now, if people found out that the second vendor was selling them so cheap because he was stealing apples, then ETHICALLY, people should go back to the first vendor.

In order for capitalism to work, the consumer MUST be part of it, and realize that they have the control to end corruption or shady business practices. It's really as simple as that. People trash Walmart so much for all sorts of things, and that's fine, but they need to realize that they do have the power to change things. See, it's WE THE PEOPLE who hold the power of real change.

If we don't like a business, TV station, commentator, etc. we are the people who can have the most impact. If everyone quit shopping at a business, what would happen?

When the government gets involved, there's no "going under" as they can operate in the red indefinitely (well, not actually, but we'll probably see what that's all about in our lifetimes). The shareholders are you and me, and we don't have a choice to not invest in the "company" unless we want to go to pound-me-in-the-ass prison for a while....

So, as you see, that's my problem with everything going on, perhaps we need "change" but we don't need it in the form of a bloated government, or one individual. We need to realize that real, meaningful change comes from the people. And no, electing Obama is not what I mean.

So, to get back to my point, yes, capitalism allows for greed and corruption to take place, but we allowed it to happen as well. But giving the government the opportunity to "change" things will never, ever, ever, ever, do a better job at changing things than the people.

And to switch gears a bit:

Does this country not also deserve a chance at change, even more so in leadership that can possibly lead us into a brighter future while having to bear the burdens of those who came before?

Sure, it does, but not when that change is meant to alter what this country was founded on. When ANY president has comments like this: Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered it concerns me.

Remember, change isn't always the best option. But maybe we should just let people touch the stove, because sometimes experience is the only way to learn.

[Obi..]

Was trying to catch up on this thread this morning and saw this slightly creepy offtopic tidbit.

I'm calling BS, who exactly told you I was there picking up trash?

*FWIW I'm well aware of what you were doing before Pismo. You weren't the only one there, right. I do know people in SLO.

I can't remember the exact words and all of the conversation, but basically..whether you choose to believe anything I ever post or say (not that I really am gonna worry either way)..

It was one of my friends, a guy named Dave, his friend Vince, both members of SurfRider or one of their buddies (there was 5 of us chatting while drying off at Jack's/The Hook..basically Soquel Shore 41st area). They're a little older than us, in their late 40's or early 50's IIRC, We were chatting about my wanting to borrow Dave's Pearson so I could go along with them next time around. (LOL..I can't remember his last name, but he has an old pos VW Bus he just picked up, and his friends, one of them, has a green Caprice or Estate Wagon, how the whole converstaion initially started, and ended up going into my owning my 4Runner for trips, how I like it better than the wagon, how yeah, a VW van's cool, how about a Toyota Van, hey, there's this guy down there w/ both a Runner and a Van, know him?

Shane (Can't remember how I replied but basically was: "Hippie looking (beard-etc) ex-marine guy named Chris?"

Them "Yeah, he is out there a lot, even was picking up trash at "so-so and so"."

How else would I be able to have put that set of subjects into the post in the first place? I'm neither psycho or psychic, if I was I wouldn't need to be in this thread b/c I'd have my own path and/or answers already ahead of time.

Admit it Chris, as active as you are down there, and in the online forums, that if A guy I don't even know, and have never met can figure out who I am via TTORA, with your again being so active and out there, it is more likely people know who you are.

Oly..

As to your post..OK, so capitalism has a place, then we must also acknowledge that..

In order to make money you have to spend money, correct? I'm not for open change, that is a fallacy that has been interpreted. I am for progressive change. In other words, the ends justifies the means.

Now like both of us have said, there are pitfalls going on, but are we, are any of us, at that level being able to see the demographic reports on where best to make the cuts and expenditures?

While I support certain things, my basic ability to move onto the next college level is being jeopardised by the actions of the senate and congress, and the state. I'm not saying I deserve more than anyone else should, but I still know things need to happen for other's to eventually occur.

[oly884]

In order to make money you have to spend money, correct? I'm not for open change, that is a fallacy that has been interpreted. I am for progressive change. In other words, the ends justifies the means.

"progressive" is a dangerous word, and the exact reason why I created this thread. Progressives, both right and left, are what is wrong with this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

They are the people I have the most issue with. The problem with their world view is that they expect human nature to "change" with time, but this is clearly not the case. Human nature does not change, hence the reason why the Constitution is such an amazing document. It can be applied as easily today as it did 200 years ago, and the PROBLEM is that progressives do not understand nor agree with that.

I'll get into the problem that is 'progressivism' in this country later, but for now:

What is your idea of "progressive change"?

[DHC6twinotter]

In order for capitalism to work, the consumer MUST be part of it, and realize that they have the control to end corruption or shady business practices. It's really as simple as that. People trash Walmart so much for all sorts of things, and that's fine, but they need to realize that they do have the power to change things. See, it's WE THE PEOPLE who hold the power of real change.

If we don't like a business, TV station, commentator, etc. we are the people who can have the most impact. If everyone quit shopping at a business, what would happen?

This video is a great example of somebody taking on a large corportation:

United Breaks Guitars

United Airlines broke the guy's guitar and refused to cover damages. The guy wrote a song and put it on youtube. With over 5 million views and clips shown on CNN, FOX, etc; the video has become a youtube hit and a PR nightmare for United.

[DHC6twinotter]

An experiment I'd like to do:

Open a hotdog stand in New York City. Name it "Government Hotdogs" or something. Charge $7.50 for a hotdog.

Customer #1 walks up and asks for a hotdog. Customer pays the $7.50.
Customer #2 walks up and asks for a hotdog, but turns out customer #2 doesn't have $7.50.
To the dismay of customer #1, "Government Hotdogs" offers to give the hotdog to customer #2 for free. "Government Hotdogs" explains to customer #1 that the high price they paid for a hotdog was to compensate for the free hotdogs that were being distributed to those that couldn't afford it. Maybe people would get a clue?

Now, my company probably wouldn't last a long time. Nobody feels they should be forced to pay for somebody else's hotdog. So, we are left with hungry customer #1 that can't afford to buy a hotdog that is twice as expensive, we are left with hungry customer #2 that still is broke, and now we are left wit the owner of "Government Hotdogs" losing all customers and going out of business.

Just my $.02.

[Obi..]

Oly, I had a great reply set for you guys, but this stinking forum time limit system does way too much as far as logging out in the process of posting my reply. I am really sick of having to remember to copy my post prior. Between you and Fuster, if worst goto Cebby and cull the post I just made.

This conversation's great but the loss of a hard written and thought out post reply is totally fucking useless and annoying.

I am not going to try to even retype it, it took over 30 minutes to compose, and I have been logged in for only maybe 35.

[/RANT]

[Obi..]

Oh yeah, if I was just unclear, (sorry no exp;etives p;ease...) the stupid time limit to post a reply already!!

Mods, find my post that was prior to the last two.

Thanks.

*May I suggest that this idea be integrated?

Sorry, an error occurred while attempting to post your reply. Please log back in to verify you wish to continue with posting it.

This way, replies go onto the server somehow as a retrievable file, even if you meant to do otherwise, as it seems that it at this point like one from last night is completely now lost and this would resolve it.

That or show us how while using a mac to allow over a 60 minute login limit within a 24 hour time frame.

[Obi..]

Sorry to go O/T..but I am so tired of this issue and part of what I do hate about our setup.

Logging out, I hope that my post is found, or at this point I will prefer to talk rather than post...I spent this amount of time also trying to just retrieve it through my server, also useless.

Do I need to go old school and use a mail server to type it out first, copy it, and then post. ;(