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Thread: Why we are screwed

  1. #21

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by CJM
    My take on it all:

    No matter what we do, we cannot end the stupidity cycle. If we vote in people who are right in the head, they are far outnumbered by the idiots. If we forcefully remove said idiots, more will take their place.

    In the end, if we want America to be back to what it was like before we were lawed to death we would have to basically start over imho. Only way I can see that happening is war, and a civil war at that. Then the country is divided again.
    In order for that to happen, it has to get worse, a lot worse. The fundamental differences that we see cannot be repaired by anyone in office, regardless of who it is. If my ideal candidate was in office, there would be a lot of pissed of people because they've been raised under the belief that the government owes them things. (eg. health care, constant protection, cheap housing, food, water, etc). Where as, my belief is that we are given the freedom to succeed, fail, and pursue happiness. Pursue is the key word there, we are not guaranteed happiness, we as individuals are the only people who can ensure we have it or not.

    While I won't argue that the purpose of government is necessary in certain areas, I personally believe the view of the founders has been taken so far out of context that it is disgusting.

    The only way for people to reach a point to head back in the other direction, towards liberty and freedom is for those people to experience life without it. People must see first hand what a government with this amount of control can do to individual freedoms, and only then, will people truly yearn for it.

    I'll show an example of what is wrong with society today, this is a transcript from the Glenn Beck show (radio). Like him or hate him, he's got a right to say what he has to say, but what he's doing is playing audio from "The View" where Bett Midler is talking about him, read what she says about the first amendment....

    I don't care who you are, this is not good stuff, because I know people who would "agree that it makes sense to not allow hate speech" and fail to see the consequences of censoring speech.

    BEHAR: But, you know, someone like Glenn Beck has made gazillions of dollars because he's out there being sort of hateful in many ways. He calls himself a clown and a comedian. Do you think he's funny?

    MIDLER: I don't think he's funny even a little bit. I've never had a laugh with Glenn Beck. In fact, I find him terrifying.

    BEHAR: You do?

    MIDLER: I find him terrifying. He is like an old school demagogue and it's really frightening because if you really, if you look around at the rest of the world and what this kind of behavior has done like in Rwanda.

    BEHAR: Yeah.

    MIDLER: Where the demagogues got on the radio and started, fermented all that hate between the Tootsies and the Hutus and the devastation that happened from that. I mean, it's terrifying. And that could happen, you know. You could turn on a dime. That could happen here.

    BEHAR: Well, we have free speech here and everything he says we can say something else.

    MIDLER: I don't think hate speech should be so free. I'm not for --

    GLENN: Listen to this.

    MIDLER: -- censorship but I also feel like you are a human being.

    BEHAR: I mean, but you can't stop people from hate speech because they have the right to say it. It's the First Amendment.

    MIDLER: I think the people who are educated to be civil are civil. That's all there is to it. People who are not educated in any way, are just a little on the barbaric side, what can you do? But that's the fault of the education system.

    PAT: What a strong stand for free speech.

    GLENN: Free speech, yeah.
    link: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/art...98/31285/?ck=1

    They have, and will continue to take away freedoms. Sure, it may be for money, or it may be for control, or it could even be out of "compassion" but they lack the true understanding of what freedom is. And the worst part is, we will let them unless we start to join together and stick to the principles that make up or lives.

    Ok, done, for now....
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

  2. #22

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Glenn Beck is a crazy.


    What's Republican senator Lindsay Graham think?
    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10...y5356087.shtml

  3. #23

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by calrockx
    Glenn Beck is a crazy.


    What's Republican senator Lindsay Graham think?
    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10...y5356087.shtml
    What are your views on Bill Maher, Janeane Garofalo, and other leftists who use similar tones and name calling? Just curious...

    My point is not whether Glenn Beck is crazy, or if you (or me) agrees with him. My point is that you have pieces of crap trying to say that a person, such as Beck, shouldn't be on air. If he was saying such crazy things, then he will eventually be gone because people have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE whether to listen to him or not, but there are complete idiots out there that want to make 'exceptions' to the rules to limit speech that they find offensive (you and I are offended by different things, so would it be OK for me to censor you because I don't like what you had to say? answer: no). That is the problem, so please don't turn this into "what he says, has said, or will say" because I'm not interested in debating that.

    You either believe in freedom of speech, or you don't. There's no bubble gum forest and cute bunnies where "freedom of speech" is everyone talking nicely to each other. It's either all ok, or none of it is, and the very second an exception is made is the second we all lose because while you're pal may be in office now, someone you may not like will be in there at some point, and perhaps you'll understand where I'm coming from...
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

  4. #24

    Re: Why we are screwed

    The problem with that situation oly is that even if we do have the proverbial end of the world scenario or major diaster, etc-even if it happens tons will see the light at the end of the tunnel-but plenty more will want it back the old way too.

    I am reminded of a book I once read where basically the economy collapsed and it became everyman for himself.

    In that book a group of people survive because they prepared for it, some time into it a few years have passed and an apparently so called "elected prez" comes to give a speech and wants it just like the old way and a few do agree.

    My point is if it ever did happen you will have a divided US, one for the old ways and one for the current ways.
    Marc<br />96&#39; T100 SR5 4x4<br /><br />Other rides:<br />00 Honda 416EX

  5. #25

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by CJM
    The problem with that situation oly is that even if we do have the proverbial end of the world scenario or major diaster, etc-even if it happens tons will see the light at the end of the tunnel-but plenty more will want it back the old way too.

    I am reminded of a book I once read where basically the economy collapsed and it became everyman for himself.

    In that book a group of people survive because they prepared for it, some time into it a few years have passed and an apparently so called "elected prez" comes to give a speech and wants it just like the old way and a few do agree.

    My point is if it ever did happen you will have a divided US, one for the old ways and one for the current ways.
    I absolutely agree. That's the reason I was saying that in order for anything to really change, you have to let these people touch their hand to the stove. Sometimes they need to see for themselves that their grandiose ideas about "the greater good" really doesn't work out in the long run, at least that is how I interpret history.

    Any, and I mean ANY violence will result in an incredible amount of our freedoms to be lost. So, our only option is to either try and get GOOD people in office and slowly destroy what these people have been building in our government, or, let our country slide down the path of Statism, and possibly towards socialism/fascism, and let our friends and neighbors who see no issues with what is happening today experience first hand what we warned them about.

    But, perhaps I am wrong, it'd be nice if I was.

    It is control, and what it seems that people are willing to be controlled, so long as they agree with the cause (eg. patriot act or health care).
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

  6. #26

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by oly884

    What are your views on Bill Maher, Janeane Garofalo, and other leftists who use similar tones and name calling? Just curious...
    Meh.
    I like Bill Maher, he can be pretty funny. I loved Religulous.

    My point is not whether Glenn Beck is crazy, or if you (or me) agrees with him. My point is that you have pieces of crap trying to say that a person, such as Beck, shouldn't be on air. If he was saying such crazy things, then he will eventually be gone because people have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE whether to listen to him or not, but there are complete idiots out there that want to make 'exceptions' to the rules to limit speech that they find offensive (you and I are offended by different things, so would it be OK for me to censor you because I don't like what you had to say? answer: no). That is the problem, so please don't turn this into "what he says, has said, or will say" because I'm not interested in debating that.
    I have no problem with him being on the air.
    It's just unfortunate so many people buy into what he's saying. Not simply because I disagree with him, but because I believe he's exploiting peoples fears, giving them an "answer", and is sensational for ratings sake.

    You either believe in freedom of speech, or you don't. There's no bubble gum forest and cute bunnies where "freedom of speech" is everyone talking nicely to each other.
    Haha, so dramatic.
    You reminded me of this scene: http://www.hulu.com/watch/33844/the-...d-of-chocolate

    It's either all ok, or none of it is, and the very second an exception is made is the second we all lose because while you're pal may be in office now, someone you may not like will be in there at some point, and perhaps you'll understand where I'm coming from...
    You mean like the previous 8 years?
    I'm all for freedom of speech. I just think a lot of the protesting going on now is unfortunately divisive, ignorant, and backwards.
    Substantial/reasonable disagreements with policy? Bring it on.
    Calling Obama a secret Muslim Nazi socialist from Kenya who wants to kill old people? Embarrassing and disgraceful.


  7. #27

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by oly884
    I absolutely agree. That's the reason I was saying that in order for anything to really change, you have to let these people touch their hand to the stove. Sometimes they need to see for themselves that their grandiose ideas about "the greater good" really doesn't work out in the long run, at least that is how I interpret history.

    Any, and I mean ANY violence will result in an incredible amount of our freedoms to be lost. So, our only option is to either try and get GOOD people in office and slowly destroy what these people have been building in our government, or, let our country slide down the path of Statism, and possibly towards socialism/fascism, and let our friends and neighbors who see no issues with what is happening today experience first hand what we warned them about.

    But, perhaps I am wrong, it'd be nice if I was.

    It is control, and what it seems that people are willing to be controlled, so long as they agree with the cause (eg. patriot act or health care).

    While I agree I feel that the majority will not do much about it. Think of it like the old story of offering a regard for snitching. What are you gonna do (general public)-resist if it means your job, life, family, etc might be ruined-or go along with it cause you dont have much of a choice if you want to survive.

    I strongly urge you to go read Matthew Brackens works, what he writes is so eerie of whats been going on and what will happen in the future that you will be sickened.

    While I feel some change could occur, like I said I feel its not possible even at its worst that we will rebuild to be in the image of what used to be.
    Marc<br />96&#39; T100 SR5 4x4<br /><br />Other rides:<br />00 Honda 416EX

  8. #28

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Quote Originally Posted by calrockx
    Quote Originally Posted by oly884

    What are your views on Bill Maher, Janeane Garofalo, and other leftists who use similar tones and name calling? Just curious...
    Meh.
    I like Bill Maher, he can be pretty funny. I loved Religulous.

    My point is not whether Glenn Beck is crazy, or if you (or me) agrees with him. My point is that you have pieces of crap trying to say that a person, such as Beck, shouldn&#39;t be on air. If he was saying such crazy things, then he will eventually be gone because people have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE whether to listen to him or not, but there are complete idiots out there that want to make &#39;exceptions&#39; to the rules to limit speech that they find offensive (you and I are offended by different things, so would it be OK for me to censor you because I don&#39;t like what you had to say? answer: no). That is the problem, so please don&#39;t turn this into "what he says, has said, or will say" because I&#39;m not interested in debating that.
    I have no problem with him being on the air.
    It&#39;s just unfortunate so many people buy into what he&#39;s saying. Not simply because I disagree with him, but because I believe he&#39;s exploiting peoples fears, giving them an "answer", and is sensational for ratings sake.

    You either believe in freedom of speech, or you don&#39;t. There&#39;s no bubble gum forest and cute bunnies where "freedom of speech" is everyone talking nicely to each other.
    Haha, so dramatic.
    You reminded me of this scene: http://www.hulu.com/watch/33844/the-...d-of-chocolate

    It&#39;s either all ok, or none of it is, and the very second an exception is made is the second we all lose because while you&#39;re pal may be in office now, someone you may not like will be in there at some point, and perhaps you&#39;ll understand where I&#39;m coming from...
    You mean like the previous 8 years?
    I&#39;m all for freedom of speech. I just think a lot of the protesting going on now is unfortunately divisive, ignorant, and backwards.
    Substantial/reasonable disagreements with policy? Bring it on.
    Calling Obama a secret Muslim Nazi socialist from Kenya who wants to kill old people? Embarrassing and disgraceful.
    I never said anything about the previous 8 years being just fine, that was part of the problem, Obama is adding to it.

    Yes, there are some protesters that are just silly, just as the protesters who compared GW to Hitler. There are plenty of areas that can be disagreed on with his policy.

    As for Maher, I personally think he&#39;s about as bright and civil as a cat turd. He has no ethics and suffers from a serious case of narcissistic personality disorder.

    We simply have a disagreement in opinion, but I would imagine that we could agree on some of the basic ideas of freedom?
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

  9. #29

    Re: Why we are screwed

    In my humble opinion, one of the major problems with our society is this. We are slowly being conditioned to believe it is okay to do whatever we want to do with our lives, as long as it 'feels' good. I'm not talking murder, so don't jump on the extremist bandwagon. But if it's okay today to say, have more than one wife, or live solely off the 'government', etc., then tomorrow it might feel good for someone to marry their daughter, or never get any education or a job because a person wouldn't have to. The freedoms we are afforded in this country aren't free; many people have given everything to offer freedom to the masses in America. Not long ago, people were honored to stand in front of our flag and pledge allegiance, or shed a tear while standing, hand over heart, during the National Anthem. These days, too many people are just floating through life expecting these 'rights' to be handed to them, without feeling any obligation to earn their keep. The bottom line is, in the end, a society with no moral value will inevitably tear itself apart because it will have no reason not to. The citizens in our country need to lead their lives with a sense of accountability, rather than expect everything to come to them at no cost. Stop taking handouts, when you are perfectly capable of providing for yourself. If you can't come up with a down payment on a new car on your own, why should you take 'free' money from the government to buy a car you obviously can't afford. If you make $35k/year, what business do you have buying a $300k home, even if the bank tells you they can make the payment fit into your budget? Do people really think the banks are trying to help them? My advice to anyone who cares to hear it is as follows: get out of debt, stop spending money you don't have, make moral values a priority in your life, realize your friends and family are far more important than your possessions or desires, stop believing everything you see or hear in the media, and exercise your privilege to vote in an educated manner. It's not 'cool' to vote, it's responsible to vote.
    Adam

  10. #30

    Re: Why we are screwed

    Very well said Adam. You hit the nail on the head.
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

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