Concealed weapons on college grounds

[localmotion]

I think what he is trying to say Oly, is that letting college students carry guns on campuses will increase the murder rate. There are a lot of people who I do not think should be able to carry a gun, but still are eligible. I would be scared out of my mind if a guy in my class carried. Yes, I trust myself with a gun, but its the guy next to me I don't trust.

There is no way this could have been prevented at all....unless someone has the ability to predict the future?..anyone anyone?

Personally flags should have been raised about the kids severe depression and crazy literature. Students should have told faculty that this guy was nuts and that he was skipping out on his meds. That is the only true defense against this.

I do not thing guns in a learning environment is a good idea....unless you are a LEO.

We all have different opinions and that is what makes America...America! Lets not make any kind of personal attacks and just debate the subject. No hard feelings!

[oly884]

Well, then we need some more LEO's on campuses.

I'm not saying that we should let any one on campus carry a weapon.

Another thing, do you really believe that allowing people who have earned their CCW to carry on campuses would INCREASE the murder rate? I'm sure there's some chance, how big? I don't know, but I will say that it wouldn't be near as big as people think.

The common misconception is that allowing people to carry guns (if they are certified) will increase murders. Do you really think that some one who has the intent to MURDER someone will not go through with it simply because guns are not allowed in the area?

[jimbo74]

if everyone carried a gun there would be a lot more murders... lets say its legal to have a gun @ a college.... how many frat fights are there? how many kids do you wnat to see dead? ok so joe starts banging jakes girlfriend.... jake gets word, now both of them are dead..... this kind of stuff happens all over the place in a college.....

[localmotion]

Well if someone is going to murder, than they will find a reason. But say there is a fight on campus, and both have a gun. What happens there?

I think the more people have access to a gun immediately, the more stupid people will make stupid decisions. Rage is uncontrollable and makes people do things they normally would not do. Unfortunately, a CCW is pretty easily obtainable, and you are right, if someone wants to shoot someone else, they will find a means to do so.

I am curious to see how the dissection of the response occurs and who will be the person to blame. Sadly, someone always has to be blamed....freakin media.

Who chooses who gets to carry on campus?

[oly884]

Jim, you're 100% right, in fact, if people had guns, they'd just shoot every one!

Hey, what about house parties, in areas where guns ARE allowed? Every time there is a fight, people pull guns out and every dies, yup, you're right jim.

Jim, from the sounds of it, you probably haven't been around guns a lot, but I may be wrong. Your argument falls apart the second you walk off of any campus and walk out into the real world where, yes, people ARE allowed to carry guns and attend parties, get into fights and so on. However, maybe I'm just blind and miss hearing about the shootings that take place at parties all the time. Oh, and outside of college, every one who cheats on their significant other gets killed because that other person has a gun.

You are making assumptions about guns and concealed carry, but unless you have taken any CCW classes, hunter's safety, and other classes as such, please think before you post.

Matt, you are right, people make stupid decisions all the time. However, maybe the concern about this stems from knowing the small training needed to obtain a CCW (I know Matt feels this way, and I agree with him). So, if a person wants to carry a weapon, put them through several classes, charge them for the classes, and make damn well sure they know when and how to use a gun in a bad situation.

Who chooses who gets to carry on campus?

Great point Matt. As to what I said above, I would feel much more safe anywhere guns are allowed to be carried if the training needed to obtain a CCW what much more difficult.

[adn3000]

What an ignorant statement. I know that it is our right to own firearms and defend ourselves, but guns in a learning environment? Just plain stupid. We are being taught to be rational individuals and being strapped at a university is not a rational idea. Wake up!

Your statement can be viewed just as ignorant. You think that only irrational individuals are the ones who carry weapons? If learning environments become dangerous, then I would feel safer if we were allowed to carry weapons.

By what you're saying, NOT carrying weapons to a place where shootings can still occur is rational?

Please explain to me how allowing concealed weapons with proper training is worse than not allowing any weapons on campus.

Also, please don't use the excuse that if guns are outlawed on campuses, shootings would not occur, this recent event proves that assumption to be wrong.

Your "wake up" implies that you seem to know better than the person you quoted. So, please, enlighten me. I need to be, "woken up."

I'm not saying that if guns were not allowed on college campuses a shooting could not occur. I am simply stating that I believe that guns have no place on a college campus, legally or illegally. I would say that a police officer would be the only exception. It seems that everyone believes that we can solve the problem of violence with more violence. I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant. If you can't figure that out then I can't help you wake up. I apologize if this seems off topic, I too feel for the victims and their families. No more from me.

Clearly not every one believes that violence can be solved with more violence. However, there will always be cases where the only way to stop violence is to perform a violent act, it's just that simple. "Talking" works, but in the case of irrational people, it does not. Do you honestly think that Hitler would have stopped killing all the Jews if people had just talked to him?

So, you believe that some people's first reaction to counter one violent attack is to counter with another violent attack is ignorant? Do you realize that saying this is viewed as ignorant by many people?

May I then ask what should be done when a 23 year old kid opens fire on classrooms full of innocent people who have no means of defending themselves?

Simply put, I do not want to be in class with students carrying concealed weapons. As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations. I know that there will always be people out there that have problems and commit murders. That is something that our society will always deal with. I realize that many people may not agree with me and if that makes me ignorant, so be it. And the Hitler thing, come on man.

[CJM]

100% I believe in it, if everyone was armed then who would dare try anything if they knew they could die right then and there by 10 people in a matter of seconds?

[oly884]

Simply put, I do not want to be in class with students carrying concealed weapons. As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations. I know that there will always be people out there that have problems and commit murders. That is something that our society will always deal with. I realize that many people may not agree with me and if that makes me ignorant, so be it. And the Hitler thing, come on man.

I'm not going to disagree that there are PLENTY of people that I don't want to be sitting next to who are carrying. And I do realize that there are cases where more people will be hurt as opposed to walk away free from injury.

I fully agree that we need to instill better morals in our future generations, but lets be honest with each other, do you see this happening? This doesn't mean that I'm not going to do my part and instill good morals in my future children.

I don't mean to call you ignorant, I realize that you have different beliefs, I just hope you realize that people other than you have differing views on the matter.

The hitler comment was directed at what you said,

I just find it sad that some people's first reaction is to counter one violent attack with another and this is what I believe is ignorant

I said it to simply put what you are saying in context. Clearly hitler would have not stopped and it took violence to accomplish this. I'm not saying that every situation needs to be dealt with equally and oppositely, however, there are cases where it simply is needed.

[Robinhood4x4]

As noted above, the more people carry guns, the more opportunities there will be for violent confrontations. Never did I say that talking would be a more effective solution to stopping violence. I think that the best way to decrease violence is to educate and instill better morals and values into current and future generations.

Sounds pretty idealistic to me and in the mean time, I will be getting my CCW and carrying whenever I can.

When was the last time somebody tried to walk into a police dept and shoot everybody up? They wouldn't get very far. Yes, I am a firm believer that if just a couple people were carrying then 30+ people wouldn't be dead now.


At least two school shooting incidents have been stopped by citizens with firearms. Didn't hear about these in the media, huh.

· January 9, 2002, Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Va. - 43 year old Peter Odighizuwa, who had flunked out of the small law school earlier in the week killed three people and wounded three others. Two law students - Tracy Bridges and Ted Besen - retrieved a handgun from Bridges' vehicle and held Odighizuwa at gun point for several minutes before police arrived. (Bridges was a reserve deputy sheriff, but was not on duty at the time of the incident.)

· October 1, 1997, Pearl High School, Pearl, Ms. - 16 year old Luke Woodham carried a rifle onto the school campus, killed his ex-girlfriend and one of her friends and wounded seven other people. Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved a handgun from his truck and held Woodham for police. It was later learned that the teenager had beaten and stabbed his own mother to death before the attack at the school.

[oly884]

100% I believe in it, if everyone was armed then who would dare try anything if they knew they could die right then and there by 10 people in a matter of seconds?

Well, a person who would do it would be some one with a death wish, allowing concealed weapons or not on a campus, I doubt, would have made this kid not follow through with his plan. The only difference in outcome would be fewer deaths. However, I feel the concern that is felt by some members here is that you would get the "trigger" happy people who would start firing and injure more than just the shooter. This is a valid concern, and I respect it. However, given better and more rigorous training, I think that collateral damage could be minimized.