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Thread: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

  1. #21
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    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    - Kevin

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  2. #22

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    He stated that public opinion stopped the mosque from shadowing the olympic games.

    Ok, well, if we allow that here, then it opens the door for public opinion to take guns away, ban freedom of speech, and worse. We have the Constitution for a reason, to protect the rights of individuals, no matter how vile their speech may be. Sure, one could argue that those things wouldn't happen here, but that's not the point. The second we start making exceptions to the Constitution, is the second that someone else will try to make an exception. And if, at the end of the day, all it takes is public opinion to change something, then we are screwed.

    Why do I say that? Because there's a lot of people that 'go with the flow' and fail at critical thinking. Public opinion can be swayed so easily, the founders knew this, that's why they created the Constitution, to give all of us inalienable rights that the government cannot take away.

    I say let them build it then, they can deal with the constant vandalism, the further separation they are creating between islam and rational thought, and if they want to try something again, we will crush their skulls.
    Gone but not forgotten: 2004 Tacoma/2006 Fourwheel Camper<br /><br />ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ<br /><br />&quot;Tyrants mistrust the people, hence they deprive them of arms.&quot;<br />- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

  3. #23
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    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    thing is, majority rule is the basis for our government. I think public opinion can be a very powerful tool. No i do not think that the government should step in and stop them, but I DO believe the American public should give them a piece of our minds.
    - Kevin

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  4. #24

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    I don’t know how exactly to begin wording my view on this matter.
    There is what seems to be an endless amount of way I could approach this discussion.

    While like a said earlier, I somewhat agree with what has been said, I don’t necessarily agree with all of it.

    I agree that they have ever right to build it there but like everyone said, unfortunately there will be repercussions to the build.

    I am glad everyone is on board with our constitutional rights, but I think most of America is starting to forget them, or there have been some many amendments and laws passed that the foundation of our nation seems to be crumbling….

    One comment that sparked my mind came from Sean: “HOWEVER, for every survivor, widow(er), orphan, etc. it is a huge slap in the face.” Not to go directly against you here Sean but I am sure some of those survivor, widow(er)s’ and orphans, etc may have been Muslim as well. Granted yes it was not majority of the people involved, but you can’t necessarily go about believing that Muslim were not effected by this act either.

    I want to try to shoot this thought across everyone mind here, but what if it was another terrorist group under basis of another religion had done the deed, would we be sharing the same thoughts if a church or synagogue were to go up in the location?

    We also have to remember it was Al Qaeda that was behind the attacks, a group that Muslims do not relate to.

    I don’t know how familiar everyone is with the area of where Ground Zero is located, but there is a Roman Catholic Church right across the street. Two blocks away should not be such an issue considering the tall buildings located all around, the Mosque would not even be within eye shot of Ground Zero.

    I remember the first Muslim holiday that came up around the time after the attack, me along with every other Muslim in the New York area I am sure had our doubts about attending prayer that morning, but we still did, without assistance for protection from the local police. The only time I could ever remember police being called was to help with traffic due to a Mosque I attended being quite large.

    Sean I hate to be bugging on you dude but your posts are sparking my mind to work. You made a quote about the thought that could have passed through the leaders of building the Mosque “oh maybe it’s too soon” or something along those lines. Curious, what is too soon, I don’t mean to sound insensitive here but how much longer are we going to mourn. Life will, has, and continues to move on, and around the world we have seen signs of this, one that comes to mind, the Berlin wall, not the greatest example but the first one that came to mind.

    Also this comment came to mind to: “we put a community center or office building and dedicate it to the fallen soldiers or firefighters or children who lost parents, etc" IIRC Ground Zero was suppose to be built in that honor, yet what is it 9 years later now and there is still a hole in the ground? We as a nation were quick to mourn, but still we can’t build or even decided what to build in that location….

    I know that last part sounded a little insensitive and I really didn’t mean it to, But I have family that are on the NYC police force that where there that day, I was fortunate that I didn’t loose family, but Muslims are part of everyone’s life here, they work in our major businesses, work in our streets, helping protect them, and I am sure there are few in our armed forces as much as we might not like to believe.

    I think I started to go off on a tangent there, but I think we need to start freeing our minds a little more here then closing them and so should rest of America I feel. It seems one person mentions one great idea and jumps on the band wagon anymore, hence why we are having problems with our gun control, or off-roading, or anything else that we love but there is some law that has been put in place because after one incident happens everything goes all down hill…..

    Again I am sorry if I hurt anyone feelings or enraged anyone here but I just think this is starting to become a publicity stunt, the Mosque wont go up and then the next thing you know, we will be waiting 9 years to figure out what will be built in a EMPTY lot TWO BLOCKS AWAY from ground Zero…..

    Let the build it and leave them alone, they just want to worship a religion, we are allowing everyone else to do it near by, why stop them?

  5. #25

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    i like what youve wrote but the one thing that it dosnt adress is why they want to build this with all the people it will upset. i mean public opinion should have weight with the picking of a location for a mosque right? im sure it would be for any other religon. so why not these muslims? this is a national debate right now with very little sopport other then basic constitutional blanket complience....they are well aware they are not welcome to build and that we are just obligated to let them. so why build it there??

    and the answer is this is a tactical move and has little or nothing to do with the need for a place of worship in or around that area. ultimatly they wont be stopped and it will please them to see that we are, powerlessly, politacaly correct exactly like Europe.

  6. #26

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    Well said Avy and I have no problem with the mosque being built there. My only concern about the mosque is the perception outside the US. You said Muslims don't relate to Al Qaeda, but they have many sympathizers. This is not to say that the congregation shouldn't build, but they should know that many eyes are on them throughout the world. There WILL be those Muslims who see the mosque as honoring the Al Qaeda murderers and it will be up to the worshipers of that mosque to show what they think of murder.

    This will all blow over eventually and we'll have been worked up into a frenzy for nothing. We'll temporarily forget that a lot of us have no jobs, few prospects, fewer rights than we did 20 years ago, and that one mosque won't change anything but enable us to rage in righteous indignation and feel the satisfaction of being certain about something.
    96 4Runner, 2.7L 4WD<br />&quot;Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition. &quot; - Jefferson

  7. #27

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    I can somewhat see where you are coming from here Troy.
    "Why build there?"
    I don't know, I am not the leader of this Mosque, but I could try to find out.
    I have a few relatives that are ultra religious and my father has constant contact with them, maybe I can see what the story behind the media is.

    I don't think a place or worship has to have an ulterior motive or a reason to be built anywhere, but considering the nation and the location I think everyone is thinking that....

    But now he is something to consider, what happens if they want to put up a Mosque near a school, or a park or some other build that holds some significance to the New York City Sky line?

    Am I off my hinges here?








  8. #28

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    of course a place of worship dosnt have to have other motives, but this one obviously does or they would simply build it somewhere else.

    i dont think a mosque is a unwelcome thing at this time in america in reference to your question of building it near other important areas. but if a school were to be destroyed in the name of alla, i would think it was inappropriate to build a mosque there as well.

    you can have your father inquire about it but the reasonings are well publicized. they are calling it a cultural center and calling anyone who opposes it a racist.
    1. why would you put a "cultural center" in the most culteraly offensive place for the host culture?
    2. why pull the race card when anyone can see the issue here?

  9. #29
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    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    Quote Originally Posted by YotaFun
    I don't think a place or worship has to have an ulterior motive or a reason to be built anywhere, but considering the nation and the location I think everyone is thinking that....
    In most circumstances, I would agree with you, however, in this circumstance i have to disagree. It is well documented all throughout Europe that anywhere an atrocious act was committed in the name of Allah sometime thereafter a Mosque was built in close proximity as a trophy if you will. And the fact that the proposed opening date for the Mosque is ON the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 (9/11/2011), just seems like an extra little slap in our faces.

    Look at it this way: if we sent a bomb to destroy a symbol of their culture in the middle east in the name of Christ, then tried to build a Catholic church nearby, they would be so up in arms about it that people would be harassed, attacked, and possibly even murdered to prevent the building of that church. It is so one sidedly hypocritical that it makes me upset thinking about it, but it has been proven time and again.

    I have no problem with a mosque being built anywhere else, but not there.

    @Troy - they play the race card because everyone in America is so afraid of being "racist" that they will pretty much roll over and allow anything to happen, just to keep from being so. It's happened all over Europe, and now its happening here.
    - Kevin

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  10. #30

    Re: Mosque near Ground Zero, what's your take?

    I try not to listen to the media as much anymore,
    Because words can so easily get twisted its a joke.
    I will probably be on the phone with my father tomorrow for a little considering the Day that it is.

    If I know the Muslims in the community around there as well as I do,
    The funding for the mosque and it being built would certainly not be in time for the next anniversary of that day.

    Kevin can you show me these documentations of mosque being said as a trophy.
    Not doubting you but just having trouble finding it myself.
    And any time I have see trophy associated with a mosque its always been right towards this ground zero incident.




    Also I am curious, how far does ground zero extend to everyone?

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