Help on CEL p1457 with my Honda Civic

[MTL_4runner]

I started this in another thread but I hope I won't be having a conversation with myself to fix this issue (Ryan )

Prior Postings
Need some help with my Honda as the title says. I posted a bit in another thread but didn't want to hijack so I thought I would start a new one for my particular problem.

I am having a problem with my Honda Civic LX 2002

The problem is it keeps throwing a p1457 code at me and I have had the dealer try to fix it multiple times but they claim to have done everything according to the FSM and still have not been able to fix it. Anyone got any ideas on possible reasons for this code?

I can't find a Haynes manual for this car and don't want to pay the huge $$$ for the FSM.

I am tired of looking at the stupid CEL.

OBD code P1457 Leak in EVAP

I did find this thread on it but the dealer claims to have replaced the vent shut valve already.
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=989801

I also posted in here but got no response so far.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=748876

Seems to be a lack of real technical talent on the Hondas (too many ricers me thinks )

I really need a scan of the FSM for a 2002 Civic if anyone has that.
(obviously just the section on the EVAP and troubleshooting a p1457 code)

[MTL_4runner]

Evap Canistor might be bad, the fuel filler neck or the gas cap......

Suggest this to the dealer... It has to be throwing codes for some reason unless you are not tightening the gas cap after refueling.

I have heard of the evap canister getting overfull and causing this (I might try that if not too $$$$).
I was told a P1456 is the code you would get for a loose/bad gas cap (evidently they are seprate sensor circuits).

[MTL_4runner]

Emission parts should have a high mileage warranty.. Check your owners manual to see if it would be covered.

I am pretty sure I am still covered, but I am tired of bringing it down there and them telling me they can't find the problem. It is such a waste of time (I have tried 2 dealers and multiple trips) and I lose my car for a day each time they have a go at it and I can't stand going to pick it up and they give me some dumbass explanation like I have no idea where to put gas in the vehicle. I figured I would just find it myself and call it good....there has to be something they are missing here. Otherwise it has been a great car.

[MTL_4runner]

Well, it's been a while with this thread and believe it or not I have been driving around with my darn CEL on for over 2 years now (just the same P1457 code so I wasn't worried about damaging anything) so pretty much the entire time I have owned the car. I had finally had enough and took it to the dealer one more time to hopefully get them to fix it. I told them what the code was, and said please put your best guy on this because I am tired of looking at the idiot light. Well, go figure.......at the end of yet another day all they seem to be able to do was clear the CEL for me.....gee, thanks, seeing as MY OBD reader won't clear codes! (major sarcasm op: ) Oh yeah, and they charged me for that wonderful service despite the fact that I told them the code that was stored in the ECU.

Issue
Well this time I had had enough and to my surprise Haynes finally came out with a manual for these 2001 - 2004 Civics and Honda CRV's (so for those of you with a CRV in that year range, evidently this same fix would apply) so I got one right away. I didn't bother trying to fix myself previously because there was no Haynes manuals available (wasn't gonna pay $300 for a FSM) and I was also hoping to have them cover it under the Federally mandated warranty time for emissions controls, but they told me it would not be covered so I took matters into my own hands. Anyway now I finally had some good system diagrams and photos to go off of instead of all the worthless Civic "ricer" threads with a bunch of guys saying all you need to do is tighten the gas cap and the code will go away or just pay Honda to fix it.....um, yeah thanks for the advice. So as it turns out it appears I have found the issue which I'll post below how I fixed it (photos to follow later).

Fix
*EDIT* (code returned despite this fix)
The problem seems to have been a little device in the EVAP system called the Canister Vent Shut Valve (which I have seen many acronyms for CVS, VSV, etc.....manual uses the term "VSV" and the dealer calls it a "canister valve"). This little valve is usually closed such that any vapors from the gas tank are then trapped inside the charcoal canister. Then when the engine is warmed up and during acceleration, the VSV will open and allow air pass through the charcoal canister which then removes the gas vapors which were held inside. The location of the valve is in an awful place for corrosion, underneath the vehicle just behind the gastank and just infront of the trunk pan (essentially right between the rear wheels) so it gets the full brunt of any winter weather.

This is the only diagram I found on the net for it (the VSV is #11, see attached pic). I found out later that this is actually the Honda service diagram (same one the dealer has at the parts counter)

Before getting started, if you can, I suggest you soak the screws holding the VSV to the canister with PB Blaster or other penetrant for a 3-4 days (once per day should be enough) to give you the best chance of getting those nasty screws out. To remove the VSV you need to disconnect hose #21, #23, #25 and the hose where it says "B3" (there are 2 little clips on the connector you need to squeeze to release the connector on the top of the canister inlet) which is actually the hose which collects vapors from the gastank. After removing all these, disconnect the electrical connector from the VSV (#11) and then remove the bolt holding the canister in place under the car (bolt #47, it is a 12mm) The entire assembly will tilt down and come out allowing you to work on it in a more convienent place (and believe me, if you live where they use salt/sand in winter, you'll need it) . The biggest issue with replacing the VSV is that the screws holding it to the canister get horribly rusted (the 2 phillips screws are both #50 in the pic, but only one is actually shown). When I did mine, one of the screws came out intact while the other did not (what happens is that when I tried to turn the screw head with a pair of channellocks, it will pulled the brass insert out of the plastic charcoal canister because the screw and insert had fused together). Hopefully you did soak the screws with PB Blaster or other penetrant for a while to make this easier for you (I did not, but would have in hindsight). If you are having this done at the dealer, I guarantee they will make you pay for a new charcoal canister when this happens. On mine it was a major PITA, but I drilled out the old screw by holding the insert in a vice (careful, not too tight or you'll crack it but not too loose or you'll lose all the knurling which keeps it from spinning and backing out when you screw the new VSV to it) and retapped it (it is a 5mm x 0.8 thread pitch). Then I used two part epoxy to reglue the insert back into place (don't be stupid an use crazy glue or something like that, epoxy or equivalent only!). Let it cure for at least 48 hours before you attach anything to it again. If you aren't very skilled, don't watse your time on this step and just buy a new charcoal canister from the dealer.

When you go to put on the new VSV I highly suggest you order 2 new screws for it from the dealer at the same time (the dealer "Canister Valve" (VSV) was $82.50 CDN and the screws were like 40 cents each). After replacement, I reset my OBD codes via my Auterra reader, but removing the negative battery cable will do the same thing (don't forget you'll need the radio anti-theft code when you do the neg batt terminal method). The code has yet to come back, but I will follow up with a post later if it returns.

Hope this helps someone else who gets this frustrating code too!
Post if it helped you or share your experience if you found the code to be something else (seems like a very common problem).

[MTL_4runner]

Well its been a few days now and still no CEL.
I haven't filled up yet, but I hope it's gone for good.

[MTL_4runner]

The car has demons!!!
Dang P1457 code is back again.

Can't say I am totally surprised because when I cut the old VSV open I couldn't find any clear failure modes.

I have never been beaten by a car but chasing this code is absoluetly infuriating to have a constant CEL. I will get to the bottom of this one way or another, the car will not win!

Here is another good discussion but it seems there have been mixed results of whether it got fixed or not. http://forum.mpt.org/messages/9/6923.html

This definately seems like a design problem in these EVAP systems by Honda!

This post was particularly interesting:
"I had that code. Ended up replacing EVAP cannister (by the fuel tank), bypass solenoid (on the cannister), purge valve solenoid(on the cannister) and vacuum sensor(on the cannister). Cost for all over $350. However, after I replaced all parts, I inspected the purge valve solenoid by applying 12V to it and found out that it was stuck in the open position. -- this was the reason for vacuum leak = P1457!!!. Other parts that I've replaced were operating noramlly. Another sideffect of P1457 is no vaccuum in the tank when you stop for gas. I don't think it's going to burn CPU (that's highly unlikely!) - it's just that, that is the standard stealership scare tactic."

as was this one:
"The part that he is guessing at is probably called a canister vent shut valve. This valve is part of the fuel vapor recovery proccess in the car and although it serves as no danger to the car it would be a good idea to repair the problem if you can.There is however no need to guess at it and they should be able confirm if it is bad or not.Also the part is covered by most extended warranty companies so if you have one you may want to check it out. Find out the code if you can a P1456 is almost always a loose gas cap and a P1457 is either the shut valve or a Purge control valve but we have had a few other parts go bad also.The most common being the shut valve."

and this:
"The P1457 is an evaporative emissions control failure and in civics can be several components. One issue we had was with the fit of the line that goes uptp the top of the tank. Its a small vacuum line that doesnt fit tight, when thats not the problem the next common is the two way / bypass valve assymbly. There is a few other choices but those two are the most common.."

Someone in a thread also posted that there was a TSB for replacing the Bypass valve on Civics. If anyone can help me find that (or any others for the EVAP system) for a 2001-2004 Civic I would really appreciate it.

Looks like another day of testing components this weekend.

[MTL_4runner]

Well I cleared the codes again and after driving it all day with the Auterra hooked up to it, it doesn't want to throw the code again (not even to have one pending). Very curious. When I looked at the freeze frame (captures data from sensors at the exact time the code was registered) for the code, it always seems to be right after hard acceleration and not everytime either (as evidenced by today). The fact that is seems to happen under acceleration might be the purge valve sticking randomly. I'll try testing that this weekend (hope they aren't expensive if that is the culprit).

[MTL_4runner]

I might start trying to tackle this darn CEL again, but for now I'm just going to add some more TSB numbers to the thread because I know there must be others out there seeing the same issue with this vehicle as I am. If any of you have any insight after reading this saga, lemme know. At this rate, by the time I am ready to sell the POS I might have finally gotten to the bottom of the issue. It's a beater/workhorse so I'm not going to throw money at it like I would with the 4runner.

Also if anyone has a source or an online link or want to email me the factory service manual (FSM) on this car please post it up or send it to me somehow!!!!


TSB's

• TSB #02026 -- CONCERNS WITH THE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LIGHT ON WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P1457. *TT (NHTSA ID #633622, MAY 28 2002)
• TSB #02026 -- SUBJECT REGARDING MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LIGHT ON WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P1457. *TT (NHTSA ID #633618, APRIL 16 2002)
• TSB #010402 -- INFORMATION ON TESTING FOR INTERAL LEAKS WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P1456 OR P1457. *TT (NHTSA ID #636753, APRIL 01 2002)
• TSB #030802 -- INFORMATION ON VEHICLES EXHIBITING MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP ON WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P1457, SLOW RESPONSE OF THE FUEL VENT MODULE. *TT (NHTSA ID #630799, MARCH 08 2002)

I have a feeling that the next item to replace will probably be the purge control solenoid which is up front by the engine, but I want to see if I can pull a vacuum on it before I just fork over another $100 to replace another piece of wonderful electrical emissions wizardry on this vehicle.

[MTL_4runner]

Got this first.

Just wanted to ask if you managed to fix the evap issue? I have a 99 civic and my stupid CEL has been on for over a year. My local dealer told me my car was going to blowup if I didn't fix it. So far so good. I want to sell the car, so to do so I need that CEL off. So I'm tackling the same issue this week. If you did fix your issues, please let me know. Cheers.

Then another funny guy chimed in...

The easy way.

Pull the cluster, unplug the CEL Bulb.

Lazier way:

Sit in your car, the position you normally drive in. take a piece of electrical tape. stick it too the cluster so it hides the cel light.

[MTL_4runner]

Here is how to solve the problem (for a 99 civic, DX)

The solenoid valve (Vent shut valve) is located on the charcole canister against the engine fire wall (left side, passenger side).

Remove it from the engine cavity.

Remove the valve from the canister. We had to heat up the two screws and melt the plastic a little to pull the plugs out. There was no risk of breaking the charcole canister.

Test the device: Measure the resistance of the device. Should be around 25-30 Ohmes. If it passes, then put 12Vdc on the two prongs and see if the solenoid functions. You should hear a solid "click". I blew in it and tried to see if I could resist the flow of air. It woulnd't close, so I knew it was jammed.

Using pliers, bend out the four metal tabs and start disassembling the valve. Take it right appart until you have access to the white outter coil and the inside part. Using a dremil, sand the inside of the white coil a little, allowing a little gap to move the solenoid core. REASSEMBLE.

This solved my problem 100%. Note: When filling my gas tank, before this fix, I couldn't fill at full max. Gas would fill the tub and click off. With the repair, now the gas fumes are collected into the charcole filter, and I can fill the tank at full speed.

Note: The dealer quoted 400$ to fix this problem. To repair this part, it required 1 hour of work. Totally doable by anyone mechanically inclined. Good luck!

Glad you got yours fixed from this info anyway.

I've been looking at fixing this darn CEL issue because now I have two CELs on this POS car. I still have the P1457 which seems to be the plague of any reasonably modern Honda Civic driven anywhere near where salt is used and now I have a P0132 as well (not sure if that is actually an O2 sensor issue, a dirty air filter or something totally different). The knowledge base behind these Civics is severely lacking......maybe because there are nothing but ricers on every Civic forum from here to kingdom come! Sorry, but looking at a CEL every time you get into a car you drive every day is like chinese water torture for me. Anyway, it still seems like there are 3 main causes for the P1457 and those are the Vent Shut Valve (usually works on the older 92-00 vehicles since the EVAP canister is up by the engine.......I tried a new VSV on mine, but I still get the same CEL), Bypass Valve (on the EVAP cannister on a 7th gen) and the Purge Valve (near the engine on a 7th gen). I did the VSV and now I need to do the other 2 which hopefully will take care of the issue.

Here's a pic for the Purge Solenoid Valve (it's #8 in the pic, see attached photo)

I'm going to try the Purge Valve and see if that makes a difference.