Help on CEL p1457 with my Honda Civic

[MTL_4runner]

Well, more joy.....

I went over to the Honda dealer to see if maybe the P0132 code might be caused by a dirty air filter because I saw something online about it showing a rich condition. Well, I mentioned it to the parts guy and right away he came back with "yep, we're seeing alot of those codes too. Most likely its a cracked exhaust manifold." I said, "great, and that has the cat attached to it too doesn't it?!". He says, "yep, that beauty will run you about $750 CDN to replace". He went on to tell me that it was so common in the northeast (due to salt corrosion and the large amount of expansion and contraction on exhaust parts) that aftermarket places like Carquest have started to stock them because they do crack so often.

After he told me the exhaust manifold is the typical cause, I thought for a second and then it all started making sense. The P0132 code translates into O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1) which means the O2 sensor is seeing a higher than normal voltage. Ok, fine so what does that mean? Well, a high voltage on an O2 sensor means that the sensor is seeing a rich condition but it could be swinging either way (ie rich or lean) because the O2 sensor could be trying to compensate for air entering the exhaust stream (ie compensating for a false lean condition). I would expect to see more P0131 (lean) than P0132 (rich) with a crack like that allowing air to enter the exhaust, but I'll never rule it out until I verify what it is not. So I'll have to pull my exhaust manifold to look and see if there is indeed an issue with mine that needs replacing and if it does, I may try welding it first (depends how bad the crack is). Too bad Honda has such a horrible design where they combined it with the converter and they cost you an arm and your first born for a new one. The parts guy over at Honda said to plan on buying a new one about every 4-5 years up here......I said I'm not worried because I won't be owning this POS by then anyway.

Hondas are great cars, but they really suck if you live in a place that has corrosive winters!
In contrast, my 4runner seems to be bulletproof with whatever I throw at it! :great:

Here's the TSB for P0131 .....
TSB #03076 -- MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP COMES ON WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE P0131 (PRIMARY HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR CIRCUIT LOW VOLTAGE) OR POOR ENGINE PERFORMANCE. *TT (NHTSA ID #10004797, OCTOBER 14 2003)

Just in case you think I'm making this all up.....
http://www.freewebs.com/hondacanadasucks/

The crack falls exactly where you'd expect because there's a gap in the heatshield (see the large uncovered triangle shaped area on the #3 heat shield below) right there and that lets water come up and splash directly on the very hot exhaust manifold causing stress cracks from the large temp gradient that creates (I think it's just a bit too thin walled to withstand the temp shock).

Here's the 1.7L exhaust manifold and heat shield (see attached pic)

[MTL_4runner]

Ok, another update.

I went out and removed the heat shield on the exhaust manifold to get a better look and I cleaned it all off with a wire brush. Now I didn't see any cracks right away, but I am going to pull the entire exhaust manifold and inspect it thoroughly outside of the car on my bench and in good lighting. I'm not going to pull it until I have a new heatshield, nuts, bolts, etc (all the fasteners were horribly rusted). I also replaced the air filter so I know it's not an air flow issue. For now I reset the code and I'll see if the P0132 comes back. I still might try a new primary O2 sensor too, but I'm going to leave it for now because it checked out ok on my Auterra OBD scanner (ie I saw a good sine wave from it).

I then went to work on the other P1457 code issue and hooked a vacuum guage up to the service port for the EVAP system (it's on the driver's side right near the trottle body). When I did this with the engine running I got no vacuum at all (idling, revving the motor, etc). So I pulled the purge control valve to bench test it. I tried blowing through it and no air passed (this is good, it should be closed at rest). Then I hooked it up to 12V and I could blow through it, but just barely. This may have been the issue, but it's hard to say right now. What I did was to spray a bunch of WD-40 into the opening and cycled the solenoid (using the 12V) about 100 times rapidly by brushing the leads by the contacts. Then I cycled it one last time and tried to blow through it and it seemed to work much better. Then I reinstalled it again, pulled the negative battery terminal and started the motor. I still didn't get any vacuum on the service port so I assume the solenoid only opens under certain conditions (perhaps at speed on the highway?). I need to research this more or see if I can find another Civic of similar years to see when vacuum should be seen at the port.

If anyone can help me out with this I'd be very grateful (needs to be on an 01-05 Civic with the 1.7L motor). I just need to know when vacuum happens on the service port? idle? revving motor? only on highway?

[MTL_4runner]

I looked in my Haynes manual and it stated that the motor needs to be at full operating temperature (minimum of 158F at the coolant temp sensor) and then it sounds like it only activates the purge valve under certain conditions (doesn't specify that, but it is likely highway speed). To make a long story short it sounds like I'm going to have to just drive it and see if the code returns.

I'm going to have to buy new heatshields anyway because the ones I have on there are toast from all the rust now. At this time, I'll pull the exhaust manifold and check it over thoroughly to ensure no cracks are present at all.

[MTL_4runner]

Going to pull the exhaust manifold today and see if there's any of those tell-tale cracks.
I'm gonna be some PO'd if there are!

Still no CEL, but the tank is still over 3/4 full (usually would throw a CEL when tank gets below 1/8).

Anyone that had a rusted heatshield and ripped it off because it was making noise might want to consider replacing them. Keep in mind those heatshields are the only thing keeping water off the very hot sheet metal manifold (ie keeping thermal cracks down to a minimum). I went to the dealer and got all the parts (you can see the parts needed in the pic of the exhaust manifold above......there are 3 heatshields and a bunch of 6 x 1.0 mm bolts you need to do the job) yesterday and it was only about a $100 CDN so it should be cheaper for you guys down in the US. Sure does beat $750 for a new exhaust manifold!

[MTL_4runner]

Ok, I replaced all the heatshields and it was one heck of a job to do because it seemed like every friggin bolt was rusted SOLID and they all fought me every step of the way (took me almost 5+ hrs for a job that should have taken me about 1 if everything was pretty much rust-free). I looked over the exhaust manifold and didn't see a single crack on it so luckily that wasn't an issue. You also have to be very careful with the O2 sensors because they are both sticking right off the exhaust manifold while you're working on it. One word of advice is not to try and reuse any of the exhaust gaskets......I was tempted, but decided to get some at the dealer anyway and boy I'm glad I did because I could see that there were some leaks from the old ones (the 2 exhaust gaskets ran me another $30 CDN). I had to use a thread chaser on every bolt hole and bolt I removed and a few I needed to drill and tap so a tap and die set would definately come in handy. If you have air tools that too will make the process even easier (air ratchets, grinder, cutoff tool, air hammer all were useful at some point during the operation).

All said and done the engine just purrs now at idle with no more rattling and hopefully I won't have to go buying any expensive parts later. Getting ready to do a Seafoam treatment when the tank gets below 1/3 full and see if that can help me get back to the like new gas mileage I used to get (still not bad but could be better). Still no CEL or even pending codes so hopefully that trend continues.

[MTL_4runner]

Hi There
It seem's that I have the same problem with my 00 Civic.

Concerning that point, I have the dealer troubelshooting for the P1457 problem, I have tried everything except changing the computer, and nothing solves it. In that paper, it talks about a floating system in the fuel tank that starts working when the tank is half full, maybe your problem have something to do with this.

I have a question for you guys, I have checked every valve and solenoid, and they all work, even the one on the fuel tank (the troubleshooting goes there), but I have noticed something on that part (on the fuel tank), there is a check valve mounted there, and it's not working very well. When I blow air from one side, it goes free, and on the other side, air pass, but with a very light restriction, is it normal?

By the way, I want to change this 00 Civic for the new Rav4 V6, any comments on that SUV?

Thank you

The design on your 2000 is slightly different since that was a 6th gen Civic (96-00) and mine is a 7th gen (01-05).

See pics below.......

From what I gather the VSV is still the most common failure on that system, but I don't have a 6th gen Civic like yours to verify anything against (I did also read that if one of the solenoids was shorted, even if you replace the solenoid, your ECU may have suffered damage......replacing the ECU is obviously a last resort). The check valve shouldn't allow any air to pass on one of the directions, but there are both 1-way and 2-way valves on your vehicle back by the gas tank so you need to know which you're dealing with. A sure way to verify is to just order the part and check on the new part (should only be a few $$$ anyway). What part number is it in the above pics? The P1457 codes on these Hondas are a complete joke and span multiple generations of vehicles so Honda really should be ponying up for the fix on these cars because this nonsense is totally unacceptable by anyone's standards!!! I guess that's what happens when you get Rube Goldberg designing the EVAP system.

As for the new RAV4 V6, great choice.....I was looking at them myself.
http://yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=98457

[MTL_4runner]

Well, after going through 3 tanks of gas and both hot and cold weather conditions (with not even a pending OBD code), I'm going to have to call this one fixed. Seems like the purge valve was the culpit after all (and only worked marginally well enough to fool the Honda dealer techs......it clicked when you activated the solenoid, but barely allowed any vacuum to flow and thus the ECU threw a code). Another thing to note is that I now have that familiar vacuum sound when I go to open the gas cap at the filling station. I'll definately post back if the same problem reappears again (if it does, I'm going to just buy a new purge valve......no more frigging with the old one!), but for now I'm calling it a done deal. We'll see if that dang CEL comes back now!

[MTL_4runner]

Now the CEL is back, so I'm still in the parts replacement business it looks like unless people have more ideas.

[BennyTRD]

I was doing some reading on issue your having with Code P1457. Look what I found. Sorry, its a little diserning,

“CHECK ENGINE” or “SERVICE ENGINE SOON” light on the dash:

It has come to our attention through automotive trade publications1 that some Honda vehicles are susceptible to internal corrosion of the EVAP control canister vent shut valve. This corrosion is caused be salt-laden water in Snow Belt areas finding its way into the internals of the canister vent shut valve. Honda has released an updated EVAP control canister vent shut valve to address this problem. But, as far as we know Honda does not have a recall to address this problem. Sometimes, if you wait until the “Service Engine Soon” light on your dash turns on it could be too late, because sometimes when the old valve shorts out internally, it could zap the PCM (Powertrain Control Module or car computer) in the process. Then you would need to replace the computer to solve the problem, which could be very expensive.

Some more interesting information that I found. See Honda Service Bulletin 03-001 Dtd Jan 28,2003 for " Mil comes on with DTC P1457: Evap Bypass Solenoid Valve Failure". It also tells you labor estimates on how long it should take.

http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_TSBs/HONDA_TSBs.asp

[BennyTRD]

Sounds like from what I have read it seems that by replacing the Canister shut off valve and/or bypass valve, issiues have been resolved. But you've done both of these right??