Brainstorming on my engine and transmission options

[Seanz0rz]

this last trip to pismo, i think i started the end of my transmission. with over 173k miles, it has served me well, but i think its time to start considering my options on what to proceed with after it goes. i want to be prepared for it, and maybe have the parts already in hand for when it does go.

the way i see it, i have a few options (and their implications):

replace the trans with a stock, low miles unit (likely the cheapest route, but im not sure how much longer the engine would last beyond a trans swap)

replace the trans with a rebuilt one (ipt?) (again, how long is the engine going to last?)

replace the motor and trans with a low miles japanese import (expensive, doesnt gain me any power or other benefits)

Replace the motor and trans with a 4.0 toyota V6 [1gr-fe](expensive, but gives me a better engine with more power and better fuel economy and 5spd transmission with a tcase, lots of fab involved to get it to fit.)

replace motor and trans with a 4.0L lexus V8 [1uz-fe] (expensive, more power, lots of fab, cool v8!)

replace motor and trans with an unknown diesel. (more power, more torque, better fuel economy, option of bio diesel, massive amounts of fab and converting nearly every system on the truck, regulations to deal with in california)

so those are the options i see. i plan on keeping the 4runner indefinitely, so i would like whatever i do to last another 10 years.

for engine swaps, california is pretty strict (as some of you know). the swap to diesel i cannot get a straight answer on since now they smog diesel engines. it looks to me like my engine choices are the TDI's from vw and audi and possibly a few BMW and MB vehicles. all engines would have to be 98 or newer and out of the same class of vehicle as mine (passenger vehicle) so no 7.3L powerstrokes here...

obviously cost is a concern. i suppose i could swap transmissions and be done for now, but i really want something better than what i have. i feel like if i put time, effort and money into this, i should get something more out of it than just "maintenance".


and thats where you guys come in. what do you think i should do? what would be the biggest bang for my buck so to speak? personally im leaning towards the 1gr-fe from an 05+ 4runner/taco with the 5spd auto trans, but i know there is many a hurdle getting it to fit under the hood of a 3rd gen. any other options i should look at? i want to keep it toyota if possible.

thanks for taking the time to read and reply. im looking forward to your responses. from there i suppose i can form a plan on what to do.

[MTL_4runner]

all engines would have to be 98 or newer and out of the same class of vehicle as mine (passenger vehicle) so no 7.3L powerstrokes here...

What? No massive diesel swap?......republik of Cali takes all the fun out of it.

Seriously, as far as bang for the buck I would either just buy a low miles import tranny (take the time to do all the important stuff on your motor too.....seals, WP, timing belt, etc) or just sell the truck and upgrade to a 4th gen 4runner with the 4.0l (or maybe even a 4.7l if you have the itch for more power/torque). Exotic swaps cost money and massive amounts of time working out the bugs so as fun as a project might sound, you'll be kicking yourself later.

[Seanz0rz]

i know. ive seriously thought about moving from california just so i can have my engines and guns! id love to drop in a 1kz in my truck, but i have to have an engine that was sold in CA to pass smog tests.

id appreciate info from those of you who have swapped within california (keith you come to mind, im sure there are others)

obviously selling the 4runner is completely out of the question. i strongly dislike the 4th gen 4runners on a personal level and quite frankly the build quality suffered as well during that time.

[corax]

Do you have reason to believe the engine is on its way out? I mean the thing doesn't even have 200k on it yet. If the engine is still going strong, I would recommend a Jasper transmission (for the warranty and quality), or a manual trans swap to keep things simple.

If the engine really is suspect, a diesel would be good for you, but it looks like you'd have an uphill battle with smog (unless you have some relatives that'll let you use their address in another state for residency, in which case -> http://www.toyotadieselmadness.com/). I'm not sure that the engine had to be offered for sale in CA, as long as it was an option somewhere in the States, it might be good - my 7MGE didn't have Cali emissions although the base engine platform was still available in CA - probably best to talk to a smog ref in person. If you decide to do a diesel swap, I'd recommend getting a whole front clip for the harness, PCM, etc.

[97kurt]

I've been thinking about this also, I plan on being buried in my truck if I can arrange it :P

1uzfe, is to wide and would take a lot of fabbing to make fit.
2uzfe, same issue.

1gre-fe/a750 trans, Ideal setup, lots of wiring and you would have to modify the oil pan and sump.
1kz-te will fit perfectly but is expensive and hard to source. If you already re-geared you will probably need to kick yourself.

As for smog and ca rules... Just get a PO box in Nevada (except Vegas and Reno) and register it there.

[Crinale]

Sean - your kinda screwed on diesels... cuz its 98 and newer that are getting smogged. If your truck was a 97 you would have been good to go.

Before you even CONSIDER an engine swap, go talk to a referee. There is so much ridiculous stuff involved in a CA smog legal swap that your eyes will probably bug out. You need to swap EVERYthing emissions related from the donor vehicle, even down to the gas tank and charcoal canister. After finishing the swap, the Ref will keep your vehicle for usually a couple weeks, and take apart every little thing to make sure it all passes code (every part either has to be from the donor vehicle, or have a C.A.R.B. code that matches the donor vehicle). Its the reason i've kinda given up on doin a 2jz in my truck.

5vz-fe engines are known to go for hundreds of thousands of miles without hiccup as long as they are maintained, unless you are starving for more power than the 5vz can give you, I would say just find a low miles tranny and bolt it to the engine. Also Sean, what are the signs that your tranny is going out? could it be fixed with just a rebuild, or new valvebody?

@97kurt - the 1uz-fe isnt too wide, its actualy nearly identical in size (other than bein a tad longer) to the 5vz, but there is a lot of fabbing involved for other reasons. 1uz's fit great in 4runners.

[YotaFun]

My response will be in red for each option you have offered but let me offer this little bit of info as well.

My stepdad's 4Runner have 216K on the ODO right now and is still running top notch and the trans still feels beautiful, but then again you have to remember that was a rebuilt trans at 100-110k miles, so technically it is still a young transmission compared to the truck.

Also in my response the engine is not going to be a factor cause I have my own .02 option that I will right at the end.

the way i see it, i have a few options (and their implications):

replace the trans with a stock, low miles unit (likely the cheapest route, but im not sure how much longer the engine would last beyond a trans swap)
You most cost effective and most risk option you have, its cheap, but then again you never know how the trans was treated, drive, taken care of, even if you do get it from someone that rolled there 4Runner, there still some history that can effect its future.

replace the trans with a rebuilt one (ipt?) (again, how long is the engine going to last?)
While slightly more expensive, a good option cause your getting a good product for the money, its a tran built to withstand the torture of a Supercharger, I am sure in a NA situation it will last and do what you want without issue.

replace the motor and trans with a low miles japanese import (expensive, doesnt gain me any power or other benefits)
I never considered this, and really don't see the point, the motors come built from Japan as is, why spend the extra money looking for one from over there to just spend extra shipping costs on and again have the risk of the history of the trans and the engine.

Replace the motor and trans with a 4.0 toyota V6 [1gr-fe](expensive, but gives me a better engine with more power and better fuel economy and 5spd transmission with a tcase, lots of fab involved to get it to fit.)
Oh how I would love to do this one as well, I mean LOVE, but there are things you have to consider, one being that this is probably the most expensive option you have. and here is a list of things you have to consider
1) The motor trans and t-case have to be from a FJ Cruiser, the reason being is that its the only platform that offered the option of a manual J-shift t-case, unless you want to deal with the wiring and installation of that hideous knob for the 4WD system, the FJ is the route to go.
2) The wiring, its going to be really intense and quite difficult to do. I mean i know you will have the wiring harness from the donor vehicle, but you still have to either trick that ECU into thinking all other system of the CAN bus system are there, or make your current ones work for you.
3) The routing of all your lines, like you said LOTS of fab work with a huge emphasis on LOTS, you have to relocate and re run AC, Power Steering, Cooling lines, make sure that you can fit brake booster and everything else you need, probably going to have to switch to electric fan, and so on and so forth, it can get really hectic and tax your brain to the point you go "Why the heck did I choose this option?"
Your a determined guy Sean, but this one is an option to consider like as a full year, every weekend kinda thing and even vacation time....

replace motor and trans with a 4.0L lexus V8 [1uz-fe] (expensive, more power, lots of fab, cool v8!)
Another fun and extensive one that also goes along the lines of the 4.0 V6 however I don't think you have to worry about the can bus system of the engines ECU as much as you would of the V6, I do believe that 98 was the last year the SC came with that motor so that would be perfect for you.

But then you have to consider transmission options, I haven't done the research for that swap but is there a bell housing that will mate the V8 to our V6 trans?
I mean you could just keep the trans that comes with that v8 and run an atlas or something similar and that gives you more options for gear reduction and such.

replace motor and trans with an unknown diesel. (more power, more torque, better fuel economy, option of bio diesel, massive amounts of fab and converting nearly every system on the truck, regulations to deal with in california)

for engine swaps, california is pretty strict (as some of you know). the swap to diesel i cannot get a straight answer on since now they smog diesel engines. it looks to me like my engine choices are the TDI's from vw and audi and possibly a few BMW and MB vehicles. all engines would have to be 98 or newer and out of the same class of vehicle as mine (passenger vehicle) so no 7.3L powerstrokes here...
While diesel would be an awesome option, like running either a Cummins 4BT or getting the 3.0 Diesel from Japan, its just not going to work for you in Cali, just way to strict. And yeah the 7.3 is just not an option unless you do a 3" body lift, custom bracket drop and pretty much just no lol, but that would be totally awesome! lol

Here is another option you might want to consider, and I probably will be doing this along the way of my trucks life as well.

I will start with the engine. Get one from a junkyard and rebuild it, all new internals, bearings, pistons, rings, spring, yada yada yada, well all know the 3.4 to be a stong motor, my stepdads has gone 216k, a friend of mine has a manual 4Runner with 226k and still going even after he sunk the engine into the mud and I thought it was a gonner and dead, but he replaced the timing belt, water pump, idlers and it fired right back up and is still as powerful as my stepdads 4Runner.

Next the tranmission, I would just get a IPT built trans, new Torque converter and call it a day, the trans is built and comes with a warranty, you know it will work its been proven, and with the new torque converter you can get something a little more spec'd to be off-road worthy but at the same time not kill your neck with whiplash on the road.

I plan on going this option, this way I know that the motor was built right by me and will hopefully last as good if not better then a factory built one, and as for the trans, I trust the IPT guys, heck I trust Cotteman transmission (the gents that rebuilt stepdads trans) and if I knew the internals and knew how to rebuild our trans I would.

Then when you do regear, you wont be putting as much stress on the engine and trans and you will be good to go for years to come.

just my .02

[corax]

Before you even CONSIDER an engine swap, go talk to a referee. There is so much ridiculous stuff involved in a CA smog legal swap that your eyes will probably bug out. You need to swap EVERYthing emissions related from the donor vehicle, even down to the gas tank and charcoal canister. After finishing the swap, the Ref will keep your vehicle for usually a couple weeks, and take apart every little thing to make sure it all passes code (every part either has to be from the donor vehicle, or have a C.A.R.B. code that matches the donor vehicle). Its the reason i've kinda given up on doin a 2jz in my truck.

If I didn't have a bad cat converter, no EGR valve (JDM engine) and a leaking injector o-ring (vacuum leak = high NOx), I would have had a CA Smog sticker at the first 1 hr referee appt . . . but then again, I have a pre-OBDII swap. I still can't see a smog ref spending that much time on any single vehicle. They'll ask you questions about the components you used (what is stock on teh truck and what you swapped in, including drivetrain) do a visual to make sure all the parts look right and are present, perform a functional check to make sure everything's hooked up and then dyno-smog it. I do agree that talking to a smog ref in person is your best bet for accurate info, try to use the same ref when you go in for certification.

You might also try to hunt down 4runnerchevy since he went round-for-round with the smog ref system to get his 4.3L Chevy swap legalized. I think he said he would be on the Marlin board . . .

[DHC6twinotter]

Not sure about the '98, but early 1uz engines had the A340 tranny behind them. IIRC, Cebby is using his 4Runner A340 tranny with the 1uz A340 pump and input shaft.

Here is a 1uz in a Tacoma swap:
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5922

Has Bruce started his 1GR swap project?

EDIT: Thought I would add that the 98+ 1uz motors are VVTi and have weaker connecting rods. They do put out slightly more hp though.

[Seanz0rz]

the ipt transmission will end up being about 3500 shipped.

their modified (send in yours, so there is downtime) valve body, is 600.
rebuild kit is about 660.
torque converter is 540
shop manual is 40
total rebuild kit cost is going to be say 2k, and i have to do it myself and ship the torque converter and valve body to them for mods. (having the vehicle down for a while isnt such a huge deal)

i figure a 1gr-fe with trans and harness will end up being about 7k. probably buy a wrecked vehicle and part it out to recoup some cost. this really needs more research.

a UZ engine will be 5-6k, but requires much more work. i dont know if this is really what im after.